Battle for the Next Generation: Working with Today's Children and Teens

Camille McDaniel  (00:28)
Before we jump into today’s episode, I want to share that the book I wrote titled Medical Mimics, A Guide to Distinguishing Physiological from Psychological Symptoms is now available on Amazon. This book provides a framework for evaluation, collaboration, and client advocacy, all while staying within our scope of practice. So go to Amazon and get started with a clear framework for considering the body while operating in a mind, body, and spirit approach.

And now onto today’s episode.

Camille McDaniel (01:00)
Welcome back to another episode of Christ in Private Practice. As always, I am glad that you are here to spend this time with us. Today, as you can see, we have a guest, and I love guests. Our guest today is Jennifer Hobbs, who is a licensed clinical mental health counselor, and she is the founder of Teen, Tween, and Child Counseling and Consulting, PLLC, which is a faith-informed

that serves children, teens, and families across North Carolina. And I had a privilege of talking to Jennifer a while back, maybe a couple months or so. I can’t remember exactly how long, but… ⁓

She has a great specialty and actually her specialty with working with children and teens and doing that from a faith-informed perspective is something that I have seen people ask about. So really excited to be talking with her today because she does help ⁓ not only children and teens and families in North Carolina, but she also helps clinicians and Christian institutions to like integrate.

Biblical wisdom with ethical evidence-based mental health care. She does that through her clinical work and partnerships. She has CE approved trainings and consultation that’s focused on whole child care and sustainability. So thank you so much, Jennifer, for talking with me for this episode.

Jennifer (02:31)
Thank you for having me.

Camille McDaniel (02:32)
Absolutely. So we’ll jump right on in and let me ask you when you ⁓ hear the phrase like biblically sound healthcare, what does that actually mean in real day to day work when you’re talking about children and teenagers?

Jennifer (02:53)
⁓ Well, first of all again, thank you for having me. I’m excited about this conversation. So when I think about biblically informed counseling, I think of Christians who do everything from a biblical lens and that would include counseling children. ⁓ Although I am a Christian professional, a lot of children and families I work with are not Christians.

So how do I integrate that in my specific work? Let’s say you can clearly see child comes in, parent comes in, there’s some conflict going on. You can clearly see right away there’s some disobedience, some disrespect going on. So instead of trying to tell the child, know, the Bible says you can unpack that from a biblical lens. Hey, I need to address this disobedience because this is a little issue.

in the families is causing a lot of conflict. So we look at that and what that looks like. So that’s where the foundation ⁓ of my Christian beliefs come in with when working with children.

Camille McDaniel (04:02)
That’s awesome because I know that a matter of fact, I know for sure ⁓ someone even asked what just two days ago in an online group and they wanted to know how do you actually provide care that ⁓ might be for individuals who are not believers in Christ and make sure that it is still you’re not compromising your faith ultimately. So what you’re saying is you’re

Jennifer (04:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (04:25)
your faith still informs what you know to be true about human behavior and human struggles and allows you to then kind of point that out. Okay, that’s awesome. And then now what are you noticing? Because there are some things that I’ve noticed. I don’t work specifically with children in my practice anymore. ⁓ I’m mostly am seeing

Jennifer (04:27)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel (04:48)
older age teenagers and most of my clientele are adults but I know that right now there’s a lot going on. So ⁓ there’s a lot going on for children and teenagers but why do you feel like this conversation might be necessary right now for both clinicians in private practice but also those individuals who are professionals in the church setting?

Jennifer (05:14)
That’s a good question. So right now what’s going on even I will say in the last Year, I mean I can go back. Okay, so let me give you a little bit about my own background So I’ve been working with children for many many years And clinically I started working in 2016 so I got my license actually February of 2016 so I’m 10 years in

Camille McDaniel (05:40)
All right.

Jennifer (05:41)
So

I’ve been working with children pretty much my whole life, but clinically the child from 2016 is completely different than the child of 2020. So going back to COVID, I want to go to COVID for a little bit. We’ve, had seen, I had seen a lot of these struggles bubbling up under the surface with ⁓ social media, children were getting more involved in politics.

Camille McDaniel (05:59)
Bye.

Jennifer (06:09)
Children are becoming more aware of their parents financial hardships But 2020 really uh-huh. Yes, so 2020 really highlighted a lot of mental health in just in general for not just the Western world, but I think that entire globe When the world shut down it’s like every industry since kovat has it has changed like the whole world has reset

Camille McDaniel (06:14)
Thanks.

Yes.

Jennifer (06:37)
since COVID. So if we look at mental health, our children are more political. Our children are more aware of adult situations than ever before. Our children are, ⁓ have way more outside influences with social media, with their peer group. Our children in the church are becoming more and more compassionate and more soften to culture. ⁓ I see a lot, ⁓ you know, going on with what’s going on just

Camille McDaniel (06:37)
Yes.

Jennifer (07:06)
And our culture with, and I don’t want to be too political, but it’s what our children are struggling with with the immigration policies is huge right now. And our children are struggling with it because they see what’s going on with their friends. And children are very protective of their friends, especially my middle school girls. So what’s going on? Our children can’t control what’s going on. So that’s coming out in anger. You see a lot more defiance, defiance towards adults.

Camille McDaniel (07:12)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Jennifer (07:36)
a lot more ⁓ empathy, lot more pushback in our youth ministries. When Bible said, the scripture says one thing, but culture and our society has said another thing, so that’s a lot more pushback. It’s coming out in generalized anxiety disorder. It’s coming out in depression. We have a heightened ⁓ response for our children, our youth, for suicidal ideation. Like we’ve never seen anything like this before.

In my state, we’ve administered three different ⁓ state of emergencies for three different demographics. With the last one coming ⁓ just last summer, because it’s just rampant. So we have a culture that is competing with what scripture says and our children are at the center of it and is affecting their mental health in big ways.

Camille McDaniel (08:36)
You can see, wow, you can see on some children, I’m sure, that come into your office, you can see the struggle. ⁓ Even for those who may come into your office that have a faith base. So like you said, there are children in the church setting, ⁓ you already, you’re seeing there’s a struggle there, a softening to things that.

Jennifer (08:45)
Yeah.

Yes.

Camille McDaniel (08:59)
are going on in the culture and maybe a confusion that is kind of seeping in to things that are happening in the word. And so, but then you have other children, like you said, it wasn’t really making it political. I didn’t think it was at all because kids just know what’s a challenge for their friends. So whatever’s going on. And then sometimes as they are getting older, you know, they want to take part and they have their own opinions about things, whether they know fully.

Jennifer (09:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes. ⁓

Thank

Camille McDaniel (09:28)
⁓ or not, they still have their own thoughts and they want to exert that power as well. So when you happen to have that child and you see these challenges that are kind of pulling at children right now, then how do you, what I want to, I guess what I’m thinking is, how do you actually navigate holding firmly to scripture? Because as you talked about culture, culture is

Jennifer (09:56)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (09:57)
Cult is, well, let me ask you this. Do you feel like culture is just pressuring you? Do you feel any kind of pressure while you are providing this care to like bend to culture? How are you navigating that in your practice?

Jennifer (10:11)
⁓ Yes, even now I’m in the Bible, but I’m still in the south and So we’re still the Bible belt even here. man, you I’ve seen Christian counselors a lot of Christian counselors that have Compromised a lot and that you know, I can’t just point the finger so they did it because XYZ they had their own reasoning ⁓ A lot of people that’s why I enjoy your podcast actually watch your podcast a lot

Camille McDaniel (10:32)
Mm-hmm, sure.

Jennifer (10:39)
A lot of people believe that ethically, this is what they really hit on, ethically you can’t impose your spirituality into the counseling world. So you have to accept this. You have to do this. You have to, you don’t. So how do we stand firm in this? But I think it goes back to the first question, knowing how to frame it from a biblical worldview and not as a way of, I’m imposing my views.

Camille McDaniel (10:57)
Yeah.

Jennifer (11:09)
A child sees something on the news that’s troubling to them. We go, well, what does scripture tell us about this? What’s some of the things that I’m talking about in this particular example, we’re talking about a Christian teenager who goes to youth group, who’s been in church. What does the scripture tell us about this? Or what do you believe about this? And how did you come to that conclusion? And holding space for them and as they navigate.

their morality ⁓ and what we’re going through today, lot of adults are struggling with what do Christians do with this? And children are way more intellectual now than they were, ⁓ I’ll say 10 years ago. They were way more intellectual. I’m having these conversations with my eight year olds. ⁓ Yeah. yes.

Camille McDaniel (11:52)
That is okay. I believe it. I believe

it though, because I remember what may have been well older than eight, because I think eight would be around second grade or so, but a fifth grader that I was seeing who was talking about things that information that was coming in through the smartphones that their peers had.

Jennifer (12:05)
to it.

Camille McDaniel (12:17)
And so some of the information that we think we might be sheltering them from or news that we think we might be protecting them from is still kind of getting to them kind of in a back door. So they’re thinking about this stuff for sure. They’re hearing it or they’re seeing it for themselves. That’s hard. I love how you said that people believe ethically.

Jennifer (12:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (12:41)
it’s not right to bring as the therapist your faith into the counseling room that’s unethical but you’re so right and spot on when you say it is all about framing, that’s that informed consent and even if someone feels called to like you know still shine a light, they’re a Christian, they serve all people not just Christians but those individuals of different faiths, it is about knowing what the truth of your faith is.

Jennifer (13:03)
Thank

Camille McDaniel (13:11)
right? So if I believe that all individuals are fearfully and wonderfully made because that’s what the Bible says, then maybe when a child or a teenager is coming in and they don’t believe anything about themselves or they don’t have any hope for their future, if I know you’re fearfully and wonderfully made and we’ve all been given gifts and talents because I believe that to be true

Jennifer (13:21)
Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (13:32)
then I am going to try to maybe help you find what are those gifts? What are those talents that you have? And I might frame it differently because you may not be a believer, but I’m still gonna focus on the fact that all of us were born with value. All of us have things the world needs, right? And maybe then there are many ⁓ therapists who would love to know, okay, well, how does that work? Okay, what’s the wording? What are you saying?

Jennifer (13:46)
Yep, this is truth.

Camille McDaniel (13:59)
⁓ And I think as you mentioned, your example was ⁓ if you were seeing a Christian teenager and you’re like, well, let’s look at what the word says. And I thought, ⁓ there’s that lesson for us all. You got to know your word. You got to know your word. And you know what? I always tell people, you don’t have to have gone to seminary. Don’t get nervous. But you at least need to know how to look something up on Google. now look, they got the Bible online. ⁓

Jennifer (14:08)
Yeah.

This is truth. ⁓

They do. Yeah.

Camille McDaniel (14:28)
but you have to be able to know your words so that you actually can know what truths to hold and what foundations to create of that even for those who may be coming to you with a variety of different beliefs. Yeah, okay. So then, you know, we’re talking about the kids, but now what about the parents? How do you involve the parents in all of this, you know, in this whole healing process while you’re still, you know, maintaining that safe therapeutic alliance with the child?

Jennifer (14:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, the truth,

Mm-hmm. So Parents and guardians play a huge role. I’ve done community mental health. did community mental health for four years starting out and Sometimes parents were not Available I’ll say so whoever is a parental figure sometimes I had to talk with the teacher I always but I always try to get the parent and guardian involved. That’s So when we talked it when I talked to parents

One of the things that happens, I’m doing initial assessment. The parents will come in first and they’ll tell me what’s going on. What’s going on now that I want therapists to understand is, and I’m going to be honest with you, parents struggle with trusting us. Christian parents are struggling with trusting the therapist because like we talked about, imposing views, there are negative

There is a lot going on in our world and a lot of the center of it is mental health and how therapists are painting parents and children against each other. I’ve worked with a number of parents who has experienced it. So one thing I do with parents, I have to develop trust, they have to trust me as much as a client does.

Camille McDaniel (16:08)
what?

wow.

Yeah.

Jennifer (16:23)
So if a parent comes in and tell me my child is doing XYZ, I don’t go tell the child where your parents say you’re doing XYZ. Because that’s putting me in the middle of the parent-child relationship. So the parent can come in and share what are some struggles they have at home. What are some things they’re seeing? I can talk to with the parent about some techniques that we’re going to introduce, because it’s not breaking counter confidentiality. I want to introduce this technique today.

Camille McDaniel (16:32)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer (16:53)
Developing healthy coping strategies We’re gonna talk about how to how to do a schedule XYZ So that’s what I’m gonna tell my parent and then we’ll talk to the child and the child is gonna tell me the same nine times out of ten The child is gonna come in and tell me the same thing. The parent is telling me But I’m not gonna tell the child. yeah, your mom just told me it no Okay, so what are some things that you think we need to work? why do you work on my schedule ding?

⁓ I need to work on time management. Okay, let’s let’s develop some strategies on how to do that Because you tell you stressed out and then you stress your stress You feel like you have some more anxiety and you can’t get things done So let’s develop some skills with it. And then what I want you to do is go tell your parents What are some things we worked on in counseling today? So then this sort of parent already knows. Okay, I need to implement this at home We’re dealing with more

bigger issues with ⁓ suicidal ideations, ⁓ things like that. Parents are vital, they’re important. It’s important that they know how to support their child. It’s important that I work with the child on how to properly communicate with their parent what’s going on. So you can’t have therapy without working with the parent. If you work with a minor, if you’re working with children who are in the system.

⁓ It doesn’t matter you have to have that collaboration Because they’re the ones who have to implement these skills at home So that’s why parents I was so excited when you know when you ask that question just now because it’s vital We don’t work with parents alone, and we don’t work with children. I was a collaboration, but we have to establish Trust with our parents and assure them that we cannot I’m not gonna contradict which I tell children this I will not contradict

what your mother and father have said. And I tell them that often, in a way that’s appropriate, not like that’s true. When your parents told you, you can’t have this, I’m not gonna come up with strategies on how you can get that. Or maybe you use it, you can use it at school and get it. No, we’re not gonna do that because why? That contradicts what? Children obey your parents, your parents are your authority. So if I’m coming from a biblical lens, we’re gonna have to have the whole council of scripture. So that’s.

Camille McDaniel (18:53)
Okay. Right.

Jennifer (19:17)
one of the main ingredients to work with children is knowing how to collaborate with families.

Camille McDaniel (19:20)
that’s good.

When you are, what about like, just piggybacking off of what you just said right here, if you do need to kind of counsel a parent because maybe they have said something that you can tell like, okay, that’s not the best way that we wanna do this. If we wanna get the results, ⁓ the healing results, do you meet with them separately and then kind of, okay, okay, and then tell them.

Jennifer (19:47)
Mm-hmm Yeah, I can meet with them separately

in not I’m selling nine times out of ten any other therapists who They’ll tell you a parent was that I know I’m not supposed to do that And what a parent will most likely do is give me some background information when my mom and dad used to do this and I do that because of this or a lot of parents are Well, my parents didn’t do this. So I want it to be you know, a little bit more lenient here nine times a ten so we

Say, what’s the bet? What are your goals? Tell me what your goals are for your child. And then we frame it with, you come up with strategies on what you think is gonna work with your child. Why? Because if you tell a parent, you shouldn’t be talking to your child like that. That’s not gonna go away. That can go several ways. A parent can break down and cry or they could get angry and defensive. So frame it away.

Camille McDaniel (20:24)
⁓

I’m huge social fan.

Jennifer (20:46)
clinical because we’re still clinicians. We’re still clinicians at the end of the day but so framing in a way that is collaborative, working with a parent, working with a child and having clear boundaries and goals for what goes on in the home environment.

Camille McDaniel (20:49)
Yes, yes.

Okay, so then you talked about a couple of challenges that kids are having and you mentioned suicide a couple of times, anxiety, depression. What are you seeing in your practice? Like what’s getting our children? then how do you even, what’s getting our children and how do you use a biblically sound framework to respond to what is trying to go after our children?

Jennifer (21:30)
Yes, I’ll share with anxiety depression and suicide rates. That’s one thing that really has me as a a believer We should be concerned because we value life what the scripture tells us about life And death is permanent So what’s going on with our children looking at that? So you have to have come up from it with a compassion To say yes, you are dealing with a lot I’ve had several teenagers who are dealing they tell me what their schedules are These children are working

Camille McDaniel (21:38)
Yes.

Jennifer (22:00)
They just have school schedules is like 60 hours a week. They have to wake up at five o’clock in the morning And they’re coming home at nine o’clock at night, you know due to extracurricular activities Then they have to do homework. They have to do chores. It’s a lot ⁓ So their coping strategy is not the best so we work on coping strategies and coping skills knowing what the warning signs are

Camille McDaniel (22:12)
is.

Yes.

Jennifer (22:27)
We have to train people on what the warning signs are. This is almost like a perfect storm that we’re living in right now in our society. And I don’t believe it’s going to get better because we’re living in dark and evil days. So we have to be vigilant. The church has to be on the forefront. So a biblical sound framework is knowing how to first and foremost ground students, children, and hope.

Camille McDaniel (22:43)
Yes.

Jennifer (22:58)
even if we’re not dealing with Christian students. What is hope? We have hope. Finding identity, finding meaning in life. Helping people. ⁓

Camille McDaniel (23:02)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

That’s a big one. I’ve

found a lot of children and teens don’t know their purpose, why they’re here. They feel like they’re just taking up space. I know it’s not everyone, but a good portion. Okay.

Jennifer (23:15)
Mm-hmm.

no.

Yeah, developing coping skills, healthy coping skills. And then supporting children and naming the emotion. Well, you can’t say, well, I just have a lot going on. What does that actually mean? Helping them understand, be resilient. And all of that combination with support, knowing when a child is struggling with just more than just, you’re just a normal teenager.

Never downplaying, never downplaying or overlooking what children are going through. ⁓

Camille McDaniel (23:54)
Can you go

into that a little bit more? Because I was going to ask you, how do you help families and churches understand the difference between emotional distress and what’s appropriate for their developmental stage and all that so that they don’t just say, you’ll be fine. There’s nothing wrong with you, that type of thing.

Jennifer (24:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I was watching an event at a youth conference on YouTube. It was just a normal event and then the children were having question and answer and one of the children said that they want parents and adults to understand that they’re overwhelmed and they have a lot going on. They’re overwhelmed and the audience of adults was like, ⁓ my god, you don’t have a lot going on. You don’t know what pressure is. And I’m just thinking they do have a lot going on.

And it’s a lot for children to have to try to cope with but that goes into okay. I’m coming from this from a clinician a clinical Standpoint is someone who’s working with children for many many years we can’t expect our churches to have the same level of awareness as we have So that’s where that piece of Supporting churches and understanding and supporting anyone working with children and understanding developmentally

Camille McDaniel (24:52)
Yes.

Yes

Jennifer (25:13)
They have the developmental ⁓ mindset of a child. Like I said, a child could be eight years old, but their understanding can be the level of 13 years old in one area, and they can still be eight in another area. So helping parents understand developmentally where the child is. Watching a lot of news, watching a lot of what’s going on in the world impacts our children. It has a significant impact on them.

Camille McDaniel (25:29)
Yes.

Jennifer (25:41)
and it comes out through behavior issues, a lot of disrespect, a lot of doing what you can because you can’t control what’s going on. So that’s one of the things we have to support our churches in bringing awareness to what’s going on.

Camille McDaniel (26:00)
How do you think that then, ⁓ how do you think youth ministries can kind of create that type of environment that’s both like, it’s nurturing spiritually, but then also it’s nurturing psychologically.

Jennifer (26:15)
So youth pastors I worked with a lot a lot of youth pastors I’ve networked with them and I was kind of surprised as to what I saw because once again I’m coming from a clinician Clinician perspective and they are youth pastors. They went to seminary One youth pastor told me I went to seminary. I don’t know what’s going on with this. I don’t know how to handle this stuff What youth groups can do create a nurturing environment where children are free?

Camille McDaniel (26:28)
Yes.

Jennifer (26:45)
to express and share what’s going on. You don’t have to accept things, listening and be a sounding board for children. Create a safe space. One of the fundamental things now in youth ministry is almost imperative that youth pastors, pastors, ⁓ anyone working with children inside the church, anyone on leadership need to have a basic understanding of child development.

You need to know what child development is. You need to know the warning signs for what does depression look like in teenagers. It looks different. A boy can be depressed, but he’s the most funniest in your youth group. He’s the most outgoing. It’s extremely hard for a non-clinician to see this child is struggling with depression. So someone with a clinical lens can see that. So raising awareness.

to where if a child tells you that they are struggling with depression, you can say, well, you’re the most outgoing person here. No, listen to the child, support in that child, support in that family. If they don’t have clinical support, knowing how to follow up with the family, provide resources to that family. But yes, the main thing is building a correlation of openness.

Georgians should be able to come ask their questions. I did a youth group. I was asked to do a back to school youth bash last August. And one of the things that struck me with the pastor, he was a youth pastor, was in his 20s. He said, God can handle your questions. Went through the story of Nicodemus and how Nicodemus was asking Jesus questions. Our youth need to know that they can ask questions because I’m telling you, what’s…

They’re not going to ask us questions. They’re going to ask the internet. We’re going to ask chat GPT. Jet GPT is not Christian. I hate to say he’s a chat. He does some good stuff, but he is going to use the language of culture. And who is going to read that our children.

Camille McDaniel (28:59)
Ooh, goodness. You’re touching on things that are like, hey, wake up, we need to get going. And this actually ties right into something that you do regularly tell us how to do it. As you’re talking about, we need to be available, we need to listen, we need to be there because if not, they’re going to go somewhere else and ask those questions, whether they’re asking their friends, whether they’re asking chat GPT, you’re really right about that.

Jennifer (29:00)
So.

Yes.

Camille McDaniel (29:28)
for sure. So then how can clinicians partner with churches? You do that a lot. Like, I mean, you partner with churches, you partner with ⁓ faith-based school systems, you partner with the community, whether it’s faith-based or non-faith-based, you’ve actually made a lot of inroads with that. What are some things that you can share with us that can make us a

Jennifer (29:44)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (29:52)
bit more successful in being available to churches, partnering with them so that we might be able to, for those of us who feel led and called in that area to care for the young people or the people in the congregation.

Jennifer (30:01)
Mm-hmm.

So I always say in general see what your niche is. A lot of people talk about niches and this and that. See what your niche is and whatever your niche is, you offer that to your community, you offer it to your church. You offer it to not just your church but as many churches as you can according to your capacity. So for me I work with children. So I ⁓ reach out to early childhood development centers.

I reach out to community organizations, I reach out to my local schools, anywhere where there’s children. ⁓ I’ve created trainings specifically supporting children mental health, but I can go into my churches, I can support youth groups, I can support my children’s ministries, knowing how to ⁓ write their policy and procedures around what they can and cannot do.

what a church can and cannot do, what a clinician can and cannot do. No one ethics, ⁓ no one how to have those.

Camille McDaniel (31:10)
This is great. I’m sorry, let

me jump in real quick. Look, don’t lose that thought. But wait, you said helping them develop their policies and procedures on what they can do versus what a clinician can do. and you’re coming with trainings. Okay.

Jennifer (31:17)
⁓

Yes, yes, yes, so.

Yes,

so policy and procedure if you did anything in community mental health you know how to at least halfway right a Policy and procedure so utilizing your skills. I didn’t know I had this mean skills myself Utilizing those skills. Hey, this is what it looks like Everything has become under the umbrella of mental health even how to make a report to child protective services Churches don’t know how to do that. Like I said before

Camille McDaniel (31:35)
That was a good one, I remember.

Bye.

Jennifer (31:59)
You can’t expect somebody coming out of seminary to know how to navigate CPS. And churches have families that struggle with there’s some abuse going on. How the? There’s a whole lot. There’s a whole lot. So how do how do we do that? You always practice as a clinician. We practice within our scope. So I’ve done this for long time. I’ve done extensive training. I mean, I’ve had I’ve had to invest a lot.

Camille McDaniel (32:03)
That’s true. That is true.

Jennifer (32:26)
into developing more trainings. ⁓ make sure I stay up to rest on my trainings, my suicide trainings. I’m a suicide prevention lists. I did the QPR training. So that helped me to non clinically to support agencies non clinically versus if I’m going into a church and I’m using clinical terms, nobody knows what emotional deregulation is in a church or how to.

Camille McDaniel (32:50)
Mm-hmm.

So

we need to we need to speak a language that the people will understand. Know your audience.

Jennifer (32:58)
Yes.

Yes, yes

Yes, how to write proposals you need to write proposals to provide to these churches How to do that how to propose how to write proposals to youth ministries to say hey I can come in and support you doing your trainings how to spot depression How to look at how to support a child that tells you that they have suicidal ideations How to do that to protect your institution?

Our laws, I’m not a lawyer, so I never say what, you know, try to, I stay in my role as a clinician, but there are laws that have come through the turnpikes in the state, in my state, say North Carolina, to where a lot of organizations have to follow as it relates to child protection. And that falls under the umbrella of mental health. So because I work with children and this is so my passion, I know that a lot of Christian institutions are not required to do that.

but they have to have that foundation. It’s almost imperative that you have to have some kind of mental health training. And that’s where we come in as professionals. And that can be for small groups too. If you work with women, women’s ministries need you. ⁓ They need you. Youth learning how to support ⁓ small group leaders, teaching them even when you work with adults, how to ⁓ support.

Camille McDaniel (33:59)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer (34:26)
A family that’s going through grief. ⁓ What does that look like? Just some basic mental health training.

Camille McDaniel (34:33)
But these are good trainings that you’re talking about, even talking about policies that they wouldn’t know about like how or when to recognize or how to recognize abuse, when to contact somebody about it, ⁓ other policies and language differentiating what they do and when we might be able to support them and then all the other things that you offer as well as, you know, kind of trainings on different disorders, but making sure the language fits the audience. This is good.

Jennifer (34:39)
Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes.

Camille McDaniel (35:03)
And I think you touched on something key because when I’m like, okay, how do we go about doing this? And you said contact as many people as possible. And you know, when you’re contacting them, obviously you need to, like you said, know your niche so that you know ahead of time, what are you contacting them to offer or before even offering to find out if they have this resource? And if not, can you help them? You know, that’s, yeah, that’s good.

Jennifer (35:18)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Camille McDaniel (35:33)
That’s good. It reminds me though of something too. Somebody asked, I was in a group and someone asked about a training they wanted to offer for couples counselors. And they said, how do I get the pastor to let me offer this training? And someone was saying, you need to be able to develop relationship because…

Jennifer (35:54)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (35:55)
people don’t just let you walk into their church. People have to discern. The Bible says, test the spirit. So we gotta make sure pastors are having to make sure that people who are coming are coming with right heart, right intentions, and all of that. So for yourself, when you did kind of make inroads with these churches and ministries and different settings,

⁓ What were you required to do? Did you need to sit with some of the pastors or with some of them? Was it really pretty easy? How did that go?

Jennifer (36:28)
Now most of it is not easy and I’m not gonna tell you any lie. The church is doing really well with destigmatizing adult mental health. We’re still struggling with children mental health. A lot of churches don’t want to do anything with children as they view it as a liability. So what I do, I reach out to them. Okay.

Camille McDaniel (36:39)
Okay.

⁓ okay, talk to us about that, because I think even my

church had mentioned something. either way, yes, tell us about that. they’re concerned with liability, like that maybe something might be said to the children or what are, I don’t know, what are they?

Jennifer (37:04)
They never

get I’ve never got a specific I kind of I kind of to be honest I kind of understand where they’re coming from like I say our state have came out with a slew of laws and Churches want to protect themselves I know churches that offer counseling that offer like a lot of peer counseling a lot of peer support like ministry counseling to couples a lot of ministry counseling to people that are struggling with alcoholism they do like

Camille McDaniel (37:12)
Okay.

Jennifer (37:34)
recovery groups and ask, this is great, but do you guys do anything for children? No, we don’t do anything for children. We don’t refer. So it’s more of educating. Educating what’s going on with our children, how we can support your children, how a biblically sound clinician can come alongside a church and be a springboard for referrals. I say referrals. This is my own personal.

Camille McDaniel (37:45)
Okay.

Jennifer (38:03)
I won’t go into a church and do counseling. They’re come to me and we’re gonna do it just like I would be referred to from an agency or anything like that. What I do at the church, I’m gonna offer trainings to the church. I’m gonna have a whole proposal laid out on what I do, what I don’t do. ⁓ Your trainings are not substitute for making mandatory reports.

Camille McDaniel (38:04)
Yes.

Jennifer (38:33)
I go in churches talk about how to ⁓ support families if certain things happen, support your community if you have to make police reports. I use other people’s resources. say, hey, this ministry has great resources. I’m gonna give you their resources on how to deal with this particular area because this was developed by a lawyer. I don’t do that, but these people are Christians. They do that. ⁓

how to do that. stick with my road, my lane. I stick in my lane. And I think that’s ⁓ what you talk about in your pocket. You have to stick with your lane. does my insurance say? My insurance say, you’re working with churches, hold on. Know what your insurance company says. Your own personal liability. But trainings, a lot of churches are

Camille McDaniel (39:23)
Right, right.

Jennifer (39:31)
Really would be more that’s how you get your in row Hey, if I could come to a training and sometimes you might have to do work for free Just to develop that relationship

Camille McDaniel (39:42)
Yes, that’s good information that you’re giving us. A lot of good information actually. Thank you. Because everything from reaching out, how to reach out, things that churches might not already have established as far as their policies and procedures and trainings. I mean, this is such good meat. I could see where therapists can start now. Like you can really actually have a good framework to actually reach out.

Jennifer (39:44)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (40:09)
and know what you’re going to be offering when you reach out based on your particular niches. We also have some therapists who listen to the podcast who are part of church counseling centers. So they might even have some ideas as well or things that they want to, you know, want to share or incorporate. This is really good. ⁓ In private practice, clinicians in churches, they…

Jennifer (40:13)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (40:35)
they can work together from a biblically sound foundation. What if they do that? If we work together, what kind of impact do you feel could be put out into the atmosphere for the next generation?

Jennifer (40:50)
I actually should just at a pastor’s conference I had a pastor reach out to me and wanted me to come to if churches are sound Doing everything they can supporting you every the the the youth pastor has training every volunteer has training We’re able to recognize ⁓ a Chinese mental health support That church has a biblically sound counselor the church have vetted that counselor

Camille McDaniel (40:55)
Well.

Jennifer (41:19)
The church knows that this person is not a compromising Christian. The impact is astronomical. And I think the impact will show in the decrease of suicide rates, the decrease of child’s hospitalization. It will show because you have ⁓ a biblical support system from a biblical perspective, from a pastoral perspective. You have you work with parents.

Camille McDaniel (41:37)
Yeah.

Jennifer (41:49)
Supporting parents from a Christian perspective and you’re supporting a child reminding them who they are You know, we’re still made in the image of God Understanding that a child is struggling not minimizing their struggle not over spiritualizing It’s like follow this formula of reading scriptures and do this. This is no I give out I did go back to what I did with the Back to school I gave out scriptures

I gave out scriptures to my children, to the children. I gave them 20 great scriptures. But I also gave out some support. Parents, if you see something going on with your children, here’s maybe two or three warning signs, our main warning signs. I gave people support on how to continue to support our children. If we have that, our states, our states will start to take note that something is going on.

And we have some awareness going on in the churches. We see a shift in our community as it relates to the children’s behavior, as it relates to child parent interaction, adult child interaction. We see a level of respect starting to change here because we have all these Christians, adults, who are speaking the same thing over our children and not compromising.

and contradicting each other, confusing our children more to where they’re going to ignore us and go to the resources of ChatGPT, of YouTube, of Adhears. It could be astronomical for the body of Christ if we’re all working together as the body.

Camille McDaniel (43:31)
love that because as you’re saying that, I’m kind of envisioning this like armor around our children that is, you know, that really is headed up by Christ, followed by his people to protect the most vulnerable and the kingdom of darkness cannot enter. ⁓ know, obviously kingdom of darkness is here to steal, kill and destroy, motto since the beginning of time.

Jennifer (43:32)
Ha ha ha!

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (43:59)
when he got kicked out and that was his start of revenge. So the idea is we have to protect the most vulnerable and we got to work together to do it. Tell us because you’ve given us a lot. Now look, if we walk away from this podcast today and we do not, for those of us who are feeling called to do more, if you didn’t get at least five pieces of

Jennifer (44:08)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (44:25)
like consultation from these podcasts, okay? There’s more. Go back and look at the transcript, okay? But the idea is you have something to get started on. You really do. This has been wonderful and I thank you so much for sharing your journey, your expertise and all that you know. ⁓ Can you tell us where can we find you? Because you do have trainings ⁓ and you do have consultation services.

Jennifer (44:36)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Camille McDaniel (44:53)
people are moving forward, this may be definitely something that’s right up their alley. Where can we find you?

Jennifer (45:00)
⁓ you can find me several places. So you can email me at jennifer Hobbs at teen, tween, child counseling.com. My website is teen tween child counseling.com. I’m on LinkedIn. That’s my social media is LinkedIn. It’s always, ⁓ it’s very, it’s getting up there in numbers. and that’s Jennifer Hobbs. that’s on my LinkedIn.

⁓ Those are the main areas to find me.

Camille McDaniel (45:31)
Wonderful. Thank you so much. And we will definitely also have all of that on the website for anybody and everybody who has the newsletter will also get that information. Jennifer, as always, it was good talking to you. Thank you so much for everything you shared about working with our children, our teens, about reclaiming them and helping them, whether they are coming with a Christian faith or whether they are not. There’s still ways that we can ethically serve them and not

Jennifer (45:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (45:59)
our faith, but definitely pour into them everything that we need to. Thank you so much for joining me today. And for everybody who’s listening, head over to the website so that you can see the transcript. Like I said, you have to at least five nuggets. There are definitely more. Pick out what you’re going to be doing so that you can move forward in this new year wonderfully with the gifts and talents that the Lord has given us to heal ⁓ as many people.

Jennifer (46:04)
Thank you so much for having me.

Camille McDaniel (46:29)
as he sends our way. And until we meet again, God bless.