Faith, Purpose, and Podcasting: Over 1 Million Podcast Downloads

Camille McDaniel, LPC (00:05.136)
Welcome back to another episode. Today I have the pleasure of talking to Dr. Melvin Varghese. I know that he’s kind of more familiar in the way he talks with others, so Melvin is just fine with him. But Dr. Melvin Varghese is a licensed psychologist in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And in 2015, Dr. Varghese founded Selling the Couch.

which I think a lot of my listeners may have heard before, but many of you may have not been familiar with it. It’s an awesome, awesome resource. We’ll get more into that later. But he has Selling the Couch podcast, which helps therapists move from clinical to online income. And on the podcast, he interviews successful practitioners about how they’ve built their practices. He interviews individuals on social media and

marketing, he gets experts in the field in that area, and then he shares lessons as he uses clinical skills to create online business powered by podcasting and online courses. Now his podcast is one of the top career podcasts in Apple podcasts and it has over 1 .8 million downloads, which is phenomenal and it’s been heard in over 125 countries.

Dr. Varghese has also founded several resources for therapists transitioning from the therapist chair to the online space, including a podcasting community for therapists. And it has supported over 240 therapists, probably even more at this time, who want to podcast. And he has online courses, mastermind courses for therapists who are trying to launch their online courses.

and learn more about podcasting as well as individuals who might be veterans to content creation, but who are looking to scale their courses to new levels. So I am super excited that he was able to take time out of a very busy schedule to talk to us today about that very topic on podcasting.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (02:23.77)
for individuals who are Christian counselors. Thank you so much Melvin for taking the time.

Melvin Varghese (02:30.955)
Camille, first of all, like, you know, we were talking right before you said, it’s been nine years since we recorded that podcast. It’s like time flies. And but I think, I don’t know, it’s just like the beauty of our field that we can still stay in touch and, know, and it feels like, yeah, we’re just catching up again. So grateful to be here.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (02:39.866)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (02:45.764)
Right?

Thank you so much. Well then, yeah, let’s go ahead and dive in. I’m just gonna start by asking you, I know that you are a clinician of faith, and if you could just kind of jump in and share with us your faith journey, and then what inspired you into the field of mental health, then podcasting, and course creation, and all of those wonderful things.

Melvin Varghese (03:15.943)
First of all, like that was such a it’s such a good question because it’s something that like my Christian faith is something I’m talking more about but I think For the longest time I was so scared I think to talk about it especially because like our mental health field generally tends to be more secular and and I feel like a lot of even if whether you’re a Christian counselor or

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:28.858)
Mm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:36.377)
Yes.

Melvin Varghese (03:43.551)
You are a therapist that identifies as Christian. think sometimes there’s been this like, is it OK if I share? it’s not, what kind of like pushback will I get? All of that. Or even I think in this sort of climate that we’re in, right, there’s like this like impression of like what it means to be Christian. Right. And this fear of like putting in being put into a box, that kind of thing. Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:50.605)
Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:54.373)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (04:03.502)
Yes.

Melvin Varghese (04:11.969)
So I mean, to answer your question, think when I got into the mental health field, because I was born in India and my parents made a really hard choice to leave their family in the late 80s to immigrate to the US. And what they talked a lot about was my brother and I, have a younger brother.

Just for us to have better educational and career opportunities that they wouldn’t be able to provide if if they were staying a home in India and You know, my parents are Christian I think as far as I know like four generations back are Christian in fact the church that You know, my parents grew up in and that I grew up in is known as the Martha my church. So it’s named after

St. Thomas, one of Christ’s disciples, who actually about 20 years after the death of Christ ended up in South India and planted one of seven churches. And the church that we went to was an offshoot of of that church. And so there’s like a rich history of like, you know, of faith and all of these things. And I feel like even for my parents, right, like to leave a new like leave a country, it’s really is like a step of faith.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (05:25.904)
Mm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (05:34.17)
Definitely.

Melvin Varghese (05:34.337)
And yeah, so I mean that was like a big part of it and why I picked psychology I think growing up, you know, I there was there was always this tension I felt of like, you know, I’ve I struggle with both depression anxiety and for a long time I thought about like is this like a lack of faith kind of issue and I really struggled with that piece of it when I

Camille McDaniel, LPC (05:59.311)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (06:02.788)
you know, realize like these are independent of each other. And I also I also saw a lot of peers, particularly among like South South Asian origin who were navigating many of these kind of like acculturation kind of stuff, right? Leaving a country the pressure to perform, you know, I like a lot of my peers said, you know, they got very similar kind of things. Again, I don’t think my

Camille McDaniel, LPC (06:05.422)
right.

Melvin Varghese (06:31.172)
parents like I think they genuinely meant well, but it was like, you know, we are leaving because like, and, you know, so it’s like, this is all this pressure to like, make it right and be successful. Yeah, yep.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (06:34.062)
Right. Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (06:41.37)
Because all the sacrifice, it’s like we are taking monumental steps. You are going to take advantage of these monumental steps that we’re taking. Yeah, I get it.

Melvin Varghese (06:46.714)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (06:50.568)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And even I was thinking back to recently, I mean, my parents were like in their mid 30s when they decided to come. Right. And I was like, that’s like, you know, career like in, you know, established all of that stuff and to leave my, know, and my my mom was a nurse. My dad was an attorney in India and and neither

Camille McDaniel, LPC (07:05.646)
Yes.

Melvin Varghese (07:19.712)
So when my mom, she had to do all the licensing and the exams and all that stuff, my dad’s law degree didn’t even transfer over. he worked, I mean, yeah, yeah, it’s like a whole process. Yeah, and so, I mean, his first two jobs were his first job was in the warehouse in the back at our local Walmart. And then he worked.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (07:29.358)
Wow, I’ve heard that before. Goodness.

Melvin Varghese (07:45.82)
basically at the county hospital, like changing out like soiled bed linens. And I just kept thinking like, I mean, it’s, I think it does come back to like faith, right? Like what a extreme like just trust in God to be like, he’s gonna provide, you know, I went from this like really like very comfortable situation family all around to now working at Walmart and you know, and all.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:01.506)
Yes. Mm -hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:13.264)
And that is a, mean, can you imagine what it takes to say despite what I see all around me? Because you’re right, I’m a lawyer, I’m a nurse, and now I’m changing like soiled sheets. It’s like, but nope, I know there’s greater here. I know there’s greater here. Even though it may not always look like it. And that they’re in their 30s doing that. And I’m really trying to put myself, I’m like really trying to immerse myself in what you’re sharing. And I’m like, I don’t know if I would be that.

Melvin Varghese (08:15.91)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (08:25.147)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (08:33.222)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (08:41.383)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I asked myself that all the time, you know, I mean, have two young kids, too. And then, like you’re saying, like, OK, we’re going to bank on something working out. Yeah, it just it’s really. But I think, again, through the lens of faith, I think, you know, there’s that phrase like Morris caught and taught. And I think what I what I learned through my parents is like

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:41.57)
I don’t know if I’d be that courageous. I don’t know. Could I be? I’m not sure.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (09:07.044)
Mm -hmm.

Melvin Varghese (09:11.324)
You know, I don’t know. There’s like man plans, right? But God has an ultimate bigger plan. And and just seeing they’re just sort of leap of faith. There’s like this side story, which I don’t think I’ve ever shared before. My mom shared with me where and I I get like emotional like every time I share the story. So just like it’s up on that. But like my great grandfather.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (09:15.78)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (09:34.224)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (09:39.006)
So my maternal great grandfather was a farmer and he started with this like small house and the small plot of land and then eventually like built this like, you know, where he had like multiple people helping him like lots of land, all this stuff. But during World War Two, like in like that part of India was under like rations basically, right? So they would like have these like packages of like dried dried whatever right or flour.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (10:03.588)
Wow, okay. Yes.

Melvin Varghese (10:06.825)
and it wasn’t enough to feed a lot of people. And my great grandfather ended up feeding most of his village through and just gave out the food. And I think so much about that because that’s the crux of faith for me, being able to say like.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (10:29.155)
Yes.

Melvin Varghese (10:32.508)
My comfort is one part, but me being willing to sacrifice what is comfortable for me to help you. You know, I think it’s just it’s a beautiful thing. I learned so much again about faith. Yeah, my we can talk more about this. My partner and I, even met on a mission trip to outside of New Orleans. We spent a week rebuilding a community center hit by Katrina.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (10:39.086)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (11:01.198)
wow. It’s like generational in your family. That’s kind of really neat that you even, you know, to hear that it really started in different ways. They’re all doing big things. Like even when you talk about your great grandfather, like again, we’re talking about things that are big, like people can’t eat. And he’s like, that’s all right. We’re gonna work this out.

Melvin Varghese (11:02.141)
Yeah, so like lot of this is in form. Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (11:26.28)
and sharing, know, talk about mom being a nurse. I mean, like dad being a lawyer, seems as though just generationally, you just have a group of people who are just gifted in the areas of lifting others up, which is very interesting that then here you come and

Melvin Varghese (11:41.546)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (11:48.224)
in your way, you’re still doing the same thing that your family has done in pretty big ways, generation after generation.

Melvin Varghese (11:57.323)
Yeah, I mean, thank you for saying that. don’t think I even like sometimes I don’t see like that sort of generational pattern. And I’m just so yeah, I’m thankful that you like articulated that because I do think, you know, a lot of like, I don’t have a business background, right? I never took a business or marketing class. And even selling the couch was literally an idea in the shower. And and it started with like

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:04.613)
Wow.

Melvin Varghese (12:24.747)
two conversations, know, conversations with two of my friends at my at my friend Mike’s house in or his the the place he was renting in like Manioc, which is like this part of Philly. And and yet at the same time, I feel like the more recent questions I’ve been thinking a lot about is what is success?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:37.445)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (12:47.574)
Right. And what does success look for me as a business owner? And more importantly, what does success look for me like as a person of faith? Because I mean, we know this right, like through the lens of faith, right? Like the stuff of this world will fade away. Right. Trying to build our identity on status or money or all of these things. Right. Like it just causes us to keep chasing after more. And.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:55.364)
Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (13:08.613)
Mm -hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (13:13.295)
Yeah. Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (13:15.339)
And then I think that the other thing we’ve been, you know, just like my wife and I’ve been thinking a lot about is like, what does it look like if we say like, this isn’t this is our enough. And what do we do with what God has given us? Right. And how do we like really push and make an impact? lot of this is also dictated. We have a six year old daughter. She was born two months early. So that was another

Camille McDaniel, LPC (13:32.02)
Right.

Melvin Varghese (13:44.751)
huge leap of faith of like the NICU experience and there was a moment where we didn’t know if she would like my both my wife and her it was like emergency c -section like her their lives were definitely in danger for like a mint you know and I remember like sitting in outside of that like surgical room because they wouldn’t let me in because it was just too like high risk because of like the emergency section all that so

Camille McDaniel, LPC (14:10.97)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (14:14.192)
But I remember just praying like, you God, please provide like whatever your will is, like, let it be done. You know, please, like, just give me like a heart to like, you know, but you know, he provided and I think having a daughter now, like we think a lot about not every daughter in this world gets to have the equal opportunity and privilege that she does. Right. And when I

Camille McDaniel, LPC (14:40.718)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Melvin Varghese (14:43.705)
Yeah. And so what does that look like when I was in grad school? I mean, the side story on this is when I was in grad school, I got to spend about a month in Kamathipura, which is the red light district in Bombay, India. It’s the largest red light district in the world. I worked with a Christian based NGO and they basically rescued women and kids and usually girls from the commercial sex trade.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:08.784)
Right. Wow.

Melvin Varghese (15:11.638)
And so the thing we’ve been thinking a lot about is like, you know, like, how do we just have our enough and then how do we use our resources financially time wise, to, you know, create a scholarship fund for these girls? How do we actually go and serve? How do we expose our daughter to this as well? You know, so she understands like through the lens of faith and also her own privilege as well, you know.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:28.484)
you

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:35.566)
That’s very interesting that that’s something that you all have taken to. Although I’ve never been to India, I’m a documentary kind of nerd. So I actually remember just talking with someone about a documentary I saw where they happened to be highlighting. I don’t know where that red light district was, but what I do remember was there were young ladies in India and this was generational. So it was like, mom,

aunts and literally they were being you know pulled from school because it was time for them to go to work and just how they kind of talked to them like it was nothing kind of just so I guess neutralized by all of it that they are like hey you know it’s your turn to start making money in the house like this is what we do and so just how how

much of an impact that would even have on just generations to come by changing mindset, healing people, mind, body, spirit. Wow, that’s, that’s really powerful when you talk about when we have our enough, what we can do to help others. And, and that kind of even okay, so that, that does kind of take me to a question I wanted to ask you to about

about the podcasting because still for us, it’s like, okay, how do we first of all, how do we find our enough? But then after that, how are we going to be a light? Just like you have been a light in so many ways and generationally, your family has been a light has, you know, just kind of been very positive in the way that they reach out to people. There’s a scripture that I was going to to use in order to ask this next question. So it comes from Matthew chapter five.

and it’s verse 14 through 16 so I’ll read it real quick. It says, are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden, nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lamp stand. And it gives light to all who are in the house. So let your light shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Melvin Varghese (17:31.325)
Mm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:56.172)
And so as you and your wife and many others are thinking like, can we be a light? How can we give? How can we shine? How do you see maybe like other Christian counselors, how do you see them effectively fulfilling this mandate? You know, through podcasting, through courses or, you know, things like YouTube and such.

Melvin Varghese (18:19.743)
Yeah. I think when I first started this journey, I like I focused like disproportionately on like followers and revenue. All right. And I think one of the things that I do feel like God is like refined in me is I see it now like podcasting is more like it gives you a platform to share a bigger message. Right. Like and that I think just thinking about it in that way, you know, and

I don’t know, Camille, if you’ve struggled with this. for me, I’ve had this weird tension of seeing that I’m gifted in certain ways, but then also wanting to be really modest and humble about it, and not just holding back because I don’t want to be boastful or show all that stuff, show off whatever it is. But I think like,

Camille McDaniel, LPC (19:05.838)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (19:12.792)
Yes.

Melvin Varghese (19:17.47)
I’ve been talking with like our church pastor about this recently about like, is ambition like a bad thing, you know, and I think one of the conclusions like we came to was, it’s like, where is the ambition? Where’s that light being shown? Right? Like, does our ambition mean that we are glorified? Or does it mean that God is glorified? Right? Right. So

Camille McDaniel, LPC (19:40.536)
Yeah, yeah. So then we would definitely kind of we would have to.

maybe step into being a light a little bit more. And yes, I have definitely, so in solidarity with you, I have definitely struggled with that. I mean, even the very nature of the podcast, like I’m always trying to encourage other people, like, this would be great if you did this, or I have all these ideas, you know, this would be great. It goes right along with what you do here or there. I’m, you know, oftentimes telling people and.

Melvin Varghese (19:51.903)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (20:15.2)
on multiple occasions the Lord has told me specifically, am not actually talking to you so that you can give this idea to somebody else. I am talking to you so that you can do it. And I’ve always wanted to do great things. I I want to do great things and I want to do things that point people to the Lord. I just don’t want the spotlight.

Like, so I want to be the behind the scenes person to give someone the idea so they can go and do it. so, so I think at this stage of my life, yes, he’s calling me more to do things just a bit more boldly instead of always trying to get other people to do it. This

Melvin Varghese (20:42.518)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (21:05.026)
It kind of reminds me of the story of Moses and Aaron when God’s calling Moses to do all these things and he’s like, yeah, but I need help. Yeah, but I don’t know how to speak that well. Yeah, but could you just kind of bring Aaron with me? You know, it’s like the Lord is just like, my goodness. OK, fine. So, yes, I think that definitely I understand where you’re coming from. And I’m hoping that.

Melvin Varghese (21:19.413)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (21:31.374)
by just sharing these podcasts, episodes, others, they feel bold enough. If they’ve had things that they’ve been called to do or create that they are not afraid for many of the reasons that you talked about when we first started talking on this episode. Will other people be upset or will they come for me or will I be received well and all of that?

If we’re walking in God’s light, I think that whatever he places in our heart to do, he will cover us to see it through. So in some way, we have to have just boldness and faith, yeah.

Melvin Varghese (22:11.35)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other nuance of this is, at least for me, I thought like the these had to be like with podcasting. thought it was like this big, like, like bold, like, you know, in your face kind of thing. And I think a lot of this is honestly just like simple steps, like releasing an episode week after week for many years, you know, and letting that impact like compound.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:40.162)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (22:46.041)
versus trying to go out of the gates so fast where you’re releasing 10 episodes and then you’re burnt out two months later.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:46.307)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:55.842)
Right. that’s good. Okay, can you tell tell us more about that? Because that that is definitely a thing, you know, you get so excited about it. But we’re maybe we’re not thinking about this as far as long term. So, you know, how can we be effective, you know, in actually creating a podcast that can last? I mean, my goodness, your podcast, how long has it been like nine years going to? I mean, that’s

Melvin Varghese (23:01.646)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (23:15.663)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (23:22.394)
Mm -hmm, yeah, it’ll be next year, year 10 next year, Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (23:25.294)
That’s amazing. So I mean, you know, what are some things we need to consider so that we have longevity instead of just like a fast start and then a quick burnout?

Melvin Varghese (23:31.578)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (23:36.186)
Yeah. Well, first of all, I’m thankful you were one of the early guests because, you know, I feel like every one of the guests that have come on the podcast, they’re honestly the folks listening and the guests are what make has led to the success of the podcast, which I’m just so grateful for. So thank you for that. I think. There’s like a couple of real practical things, so one is.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (23:55.386)
Thank you.

Melvin Varghese (24:04.038)
look at your yearly calendar, right? And all of this will vary for all of us, right? Like again, we have a young child at home. So what I wanted to do was I just asked myself a question, okay, what does it look like to podcast but around our daughter’s schedule, right? And so what I’ve arrived at for me is I only release live episodes six months of the year. The other six months we run replay episodes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (24:22.128)
Mm

Camille McDaniel, LPC (24:29.434)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (24:33.488)
We don’t grow as fast, of course, as we release. I’m designing what success looks like for me. And so I would do that. So practically what this means is, for me, it’s like two months on, one month off. So January, February, we do live episodes. Then March, we run replays. April, May, we do live. And then June, July, August, I actually take the whole summer off. We run replays on those. And then

Camille McDaniel, LPC (24:41.879)
I can’t.

Melvin Varghese (25:02.497)
September, October we do live and then November, December I take off as well because I’m like, it’s too much with the holidays and like all these like, you know, we already have like two field trips, fall field trips which I’m excited for, but you know, it’s like, falls, one falls on a Tuesday and I’m like, it’s not, it’s just too hard, you know? So, I would just do that. Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (25:22.032)
Okay. That’s good. Okay. And then how do we build up? know, like you’re talking about replays or like I know here for our podcast, we, you know, we record it ahead of time. And so like, how do you actually build that loyal audience that you will be, you know, sharing these replays with or, or like yours, you know, sharing these re -recordings or?

Melvin Varghese (25:30.577)
Yeah. Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (25:39.399)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (25:42.821)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (25:48.9)
I guess, however you do it, what do we do with regards to getting that audience?

Melvin Varghese (25:51.066)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I think the reality is, I think in the early stages, you have to, quote unquote, like hustle a little bit more than you probably need to in later stages, right? Because the systems are not set up. So practically what this means is, let’s say that you schedule out like your ideal schedule and you’re like, hey, I’m on a release on this sort of cadence.

The reality is in the first like year or two, you may have to do a little more just to create that backlog of episodes because you don’t want to be like release like four episodes and then be like, I’m taking next month off and then we’re going to run replays. And it’s like the same four episodes running on replay, right? whereas you may have to that first, that first year or two, I think is just, the reality is just awkward and a little bit harder, you know, because

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:26.542)
Mm -hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:34.649)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:46.522)
Okay. Okay.

Melvin Varghese (26:48.198)
You could just got to get a backlog. But I think if you can sort of say like, hey, I’m thinking about this, like my one of my most favorite phrases is decades over days. And I think if you sort of just embrace that mindset, I think that can really help. And then also just realize, like success looks different for Camille than looks different for Melvin than this. You know, if you’re listening, it looks different for you. You can always.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:50.669)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (27:16.382)
be inspired by other people, just ultimately figure out what makes the most sense for you. know? Yeah. And then I think to like more tactical to answer that question. The one so there was a study done in last year that found basically out of all online media personalities, podcasters are the most trusted and then YouTubers are the second most trusted.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (27:23.789)
Okay, that’s great.

Melvin Varghese (27:45.679)
And so what’s interesting, but the one issue with podcasts still is that they’re not great for like being found. I mean, people will, you know, like pull up Apple podcasts they might find like, or they tell but like, it’s not as easy as like, I don’t know, like if you’re on YouTube or something, right, and they search your name and it or YouTube naturally pushes it to different people, all that kind of stuff, right. So the piece that I see a lot of

Camille McDaniel, LPC (28:06.778)
right.

Melvin Varghese (28:15.371)
their possessed our podcast where they don’t often consider is they don’t do the greatest of marketing those episodes. So they create the episode, but then they go to the next episode without actually like promoting it. And yeah, so I would say like two little practical things. One is build an email list of your so that people that are listening to your podcast, you’re getting their emails, right? Because don’t build it like

don’t just think, okay, I’m going to get all my folks and take them to a Facebook group or connect with them on LinkedIn, you don’t want to be at the mercy of an algorithm that constantly changes, right?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (28:58.178)
gosh, that makes sense and goodness, those algorithms do change a lot.

Melvin Varghese (29:02.179)
Yeah, a lot. I mean, we made a really hard decision over the summer to shut down our Facebook group. And part of that was just like the you know, and you remember, like we started that in 2015. It was just like, yeah, yeah, it was. mean, it was just it had grown to like a shade under 10000. And it was a big group. But one thing I noticed is like the algorithm. mean, like only.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:12.856)
Yes, I’m in that group.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:21.933)
Yes.

Melvin Varghese (29:31.074)
I don’t know, a couple of hundred of those 10 ,000 were seeing posts, especially if we ever put links in them. And it reminded me again of like, take your most loyal listeners to an email list because at least you can email them and you control that communication. So that’s like one thing I would say. And then the second thing is figure out.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:50.128)
Bye.

Melvin Varghese (29:57.046)
Podcasts are great again because of I call them like it’s a great relationship deepening channel, right? So Usually when I mean I have the same thing I’m sure you do like you have your favorite podcasters, right? And once you’ve listened to them for a while you trust them you trust their recommendations You probably bought something they recommended, you know all of that stuff, right? but Podcasts again are not great for like getting found. So think about like the one

Camille McDaniel, LPC (30:09.232)
Mm

Melvin Varghese (30:24.548)
Platform that you want to focus on that is called a quote unquote a discovery platform ie Like it can get pulled up in search, right? And so what we do is LinkedIn and so we promote our podcast episodes on our email list Which is our most loyal fans and then to our LinkedIn followers, and then I just kind of rinse and repeat it episode after episode

Camille McDaniel, LPC (30:46.148)
knives.

Okay, that’s awesome. Okay, great. then when you’re so that’s like promoting and then when you’re actually Kind of getting started with doing your podcasting I’ve heard you talk about and I was saying I I heard you talk about it in the seven day course creator starter kit that

Melvin Varghese (31:08.013)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (31:09.196)
I jumped in and was like, let me see what this is about and did all the seven days and I’m like, this is really good for free. Like you’re giving a lot of meat. So I’m sure I’m like, okay, to go to the next level, I couldn’t even imagine how much more you’re giving. But you know, in that you were kind of talking about storytelling. And so, you know, when you’re talking about creating a podcast and I understand that

Different podcasts have obviously different focus. But what did you mean? How do we incorporate this storytelling when we’re talking about building our podcast?

Melvin Varghese (31:41.89)
Yeah, it’s a great. I feel like all of us are one of the best skills that you can acquire is to be a good, is to get to be a better storyteller. Right. And the good thing is we as clinicians, we hear stories in the, in the room. I imagine most of us are naturally like pretty good storytellers is just like a skill that needs to be refined. Right. So

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:04.004)
Mm -hmm.

Melvin Varghese (32:06.298)
There’s some practical stuff that I do. So this is going to sound really dumb, I’ll just share. I have a Slack channel that’s a private Slack channel only to myself. And I have a chat, like a sub channel within the channel that’s like stories. So when I’m like on a hike, you know, like I try to do a daily hike and was on my hike, I hear something or I’m talking to a friend.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:12.249)
Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:17.968)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (32:32.122)
something inspires me, I go into that Slack channel and I’ll write like a little thing or I’ll record an audio to myself so that I remember that story, right? And then when I’m ready to record a podcast, I’ll look at that section and be like, can we create, what kind of episodes can we create around that? So it’s almost like you’re getting, almost like a way that you can capture ideas.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:38.765)
Okay.

Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:50.0)
nice.

Melvin Varghese (32:59.118)
and then you’re synthesizing that ideas into the actual episodes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:59.428)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (33:03.906)
that’s a great idea. And I’ll tell you why, because like you said, you know, we, as therapists, we hear stories, I’m sure we can share stories. I mean, we literally are holding space and listening to people’s life stories for a living, you know, as we help them. But when it’s time to actually develop your podcast episodes, then it’s sometimes like you draw a blank. You’re like, have all of this knowledge in there. How do I get it out? And

Melvin Varghese (33:28.091)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (33:32.6)
I like how just doing it organically can help because yeah, you’re having a conversation and then it jogs your mind about something, whether you’ve said something or the person you’re talking to, and it leads to something that many people probably want to hear about or many people actually deal with. So doing it like in real time and kind of, no, that sounds like a great idea actually. And then just creating that node and the story that goes along with it can really help you create some really good content. thank you.

Melvin Varghese (34:01.669)
Yeah, now you’re so and I like slack because slack has the ability to you can take a picture You can record a video or you can record audio and you can just put all of that into slack yeah, so Yes, yeah

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:02.19)
That’s awesome, okay?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:16.01)
I didn’t know that.

Okay, slack. All right. So our audience is gonna need to check that out because that sounds really like a neat one I’m gonna run over there. Okay, good So then I think like the the one thing I also want to know as as people are creating is then what are some of the common mistakes that you notice? New podcasters and even individuals who want to do podcasting and YouTube at the same time. Like what are what are they doing? What’s what how can they avoid? What are they doing wrong? And how can they avoid this?

Melvin Varghese (34:22.562)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (34:42.149)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (34:46.128)
Yeah, it’s a great question. I call this like all the mistakes that I made. Please don’t make the same one. So the biggest one I see is they’re relying on sponsors or YouTube ad revenue to monetize. And so they’re banking on something like one day I’m going to get a sponsor or once I get to X amount of subscribers, YouTube will, you know, like give me money.

And I think another way to think about it is you can monetize your podcast from day one. So, for example, let’s say you’re you know, you’re a therapist in private practice. Think about like the niches, the specialties. Think about like even your two to three favorite clients. What were the themes that they came in for? Right. And create solo episodes around that. Right. Not not, of course, sharing like private information, any of that. But, you know, common thing could be like

Camille McDaniel, LPC (35:42.64)
So,

Melvin Varghese (35:45.053)
Hey, everyone, you know, a common theme I’m seeing in the therapy room these days is blank. And I wanted to just create an episode and just talk through like three things that can be helpful as you think about this. Right. So insert one, you know. And what I like to do is I’ll say like, this is the question we’re going to explore. This is a story related to that question, which I’m usually pulling from Slack. Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (36:09.22)
Yes.

Melvin Varghese (36:10.441)
Right. And then I do the three points. And then it’s like a simple call to action. So the call to action could be, you know, let’s say it’s around. I don’t know. Let’s say one of your specialties is like helping like fellow Christians who may be like this intersection of faith and mental health. Right. Let’s say, right. Like am I a bad Christian because I struggle with depression? Or do I is that a lack of faith kind of thing? Right. Let’s say you create an episode around that.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (36:32.026)
Mm

Melvin Varghese (36:40.687)
Then the call to action could be you know, if you are listening and if you’re a person of faith that is Struggles with depression, but also it’s like really having struggling with your faith Just wanted to let you know That’s one of the areas that I focus on in my private practice You can learn I would love to work with you and at least touch base with you You can learn more about my services over at and then put in you know Linked a website or whatever. So or mention the website

Camille McDaniel, LPC (37:04.334)
Awesome. Yeah. that is awesome. I could…

What came up in my mind as you’re sharing that too was with the counseling compact at least I know for like for counselors I know psychologists already have that and I don’t know if if MFTs or LCSWs do but I think that some of the Their councils are trying to work on it But with the counseling compact, you know your podcast can go all over and we’re here in the United States and so even that that tagline could actually get clients from many different places where you

Melvin Varghese (37:38.207)
Yeah. Yep.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (37:40.75)
you may be licensed and in the meantime though you know definitely in your own state but yeah that’s a great call to action that’s that’s cool okay that’s helpful

Melvin Varghese (37:43.679)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (37:51.349)
Yeah, well, I think the other benefit of it is I was I was just going to say like, you know, the powerful thing about podcasts is people and podcasts are also put on YouTube is people can discover this weeks, months, years later. Right. So this is something I think a lot about with content. You know, our two main focuses are the audio podcast, YouTube, and then LinkedIn is kind of the third priority. Right. But it’s because like I really want to build assets on

the audio podcasts on YouTube that compound over time, right? People can find this five, six years later, they can download our course kit or, you know, do a podcasting workshop or any of those kinds of things. I don’t want to be, I have a love hate with social media. I think most of us do, right? I don’t want to spend my days on like hours and hours on social media. You know, I don’t think it’s good from a mental health perspective or even the way that I want to live my life. So that’s how I’ve kind of focused it.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (38:26.83)
Right? Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (38:39.024)
Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (38:44.41)
Mm -mm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (38:51.266)
Yeah, no, I like that because

That’s how I feel too. I want to do things, but I don’t want those things that we’re doing to shine a light, to take over. And then I don’t have as much time with the kids or my husband or family or friends and all of that. It’s like, I’m tied now to the social media and all the updates. it’s that balance, right? And that actually brings me to the next thing I was going to ask you about actually, because when we’re talking about balance and not being caught up in the world when of social media time,

Melvin Varghese (39:03.51)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (39:08.362)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (39:22.956)
hide to it and also not wanting to get caught up in did I get any likes did I get any shares like you you find yourself going back to it and so focused on it that it really starts

stealing time away from you. You don’t even realize how much time has gone on. And so for you who, mean, obviously at over a million downloads now, you know, how do you stay grounded? How do you not get caught up in, you know, all of all of the fanfare about like, you know, did people see it? Did people watch it? Did people download it? You know, how do we how do we just keep ourselves balanced? And I know that sounds silly because it’s like, okay, we’re mental health professionals. Clearly, we don’t need to think about that. But, you know, we’re human.

And so when we put out things, we want people to take notice. We want people to listen. We want to know if anyone’s sharing or liking, but there has to be some balance in it. So, you know, how do you stay grounded after doing this for almost a decade?

Melvin Varghese (40:15.66)
Yeah.

Yeah, it’s it’s not easy. Like I don’t think I have it like fully figured out. I mean, I remember the first several years of podcasts, I like I would obsessively check our download numbers on our like podcast host. And I noticed, I mean, again, I noticed like my self esteem and my extension, my self worth was getting a lot like tied in these like ups and downs. And then and then abstractly, right? Like, again, through the lens of faith, I know that my identity is in

Camille McDaniel, LPC (40:41.785)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (40:48.471)
Christ, but why am I getting into like, based on downloads, right? But again, this is I feel like it’s still an evolving process. But over the past couple of years, I’ve done some really practical things to not get tied up in this. So one is, wrote a I wrote like almost like checklist of like what success looks like for me, but I did it in the domains like I

Camille McDaniel, LPC (40:53.092)
Mm -hmm.

Melvin Varghese (41:17.562)
broken into domains, right? Like so family, health, faith are kind of the three main ones. And that’s often what and I and I kind of forced myself I said, what are the three most important ones in those three domains? So that’s kind of my like grounding, you know, things right. So for me, I know like, being able to spend time like have

Camille McDaniel, LPC (41:22.574)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (41:36.922)
right.

Melvin Varghese (41:44.112)
Quality like dinner like dinners together as a family like as often as possible, right? Like that’s success, right? Now the other option so I know when I read that like the option then is not to be Go check LinkedIn and make sure I commented everywhere while you know what we’re supposed to be having dinner, right? Yeah, so that’s one one thing the other thing I did is I’ve created like

Camille McDaniel, LPC (41:57.904)
you

Camille McDaniel, LPC (42:02.157)
Right?

Melvin Varghese (42:09.755)
like almost like an informal board of like friends and advisors and mentors from mental health outside of mental health, different ages, different like just varying like multicultural identities. I think that’s been really helpful just to get like a different perspective on on things. And I think that’s the side note of the podcast is you get to connect with some amazing people who become friends, right? And you get to have this like

Camille McDaniel, LPC (42:14.596)
Hey, yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (42:31.482)
Okay, yes.

Melvin Varghese (42:39.698)
group over time. And then the other stuff is I don’t have social media on my phone. I just took it off. So when I’m logged in on LinkedIn, it’s on my desktop. I’d set a 30 -minute time in the morning. Sometimes if I have extra time, it might be another 15 minutes in the afternoon. But other than that, I’m going about my day. I don’t have notifications on. I did that for a while, and I noticed, again, my self -esteem was getting really

Camille McDaniel, LPC (42:52.496)
Okay.

Melvin Varghese (43:08.248)
impacted by people commenting and liking and these notifications, every like, you know, it’s like bam, bam, bam. like, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (43:12.258)
Yes. Okay, that’s good. Right. Because it’s like, did anybody, did anyone see it? Did anyone comment? And then, and then the pull to comment back and all of that. So I’m

I’m hearing a lot of then, you know, first of all, faith, because if you feel you’re led to really do this and put this out there, then you really have to do the thing that you’ve been called to do and let it go. We can’t just keep on going back to babysit it. So it’s like, that’s where you kind of, you know, said what’s most important. You had those boundaries to just keep yourself centered and grounded on that. And then I love that you also had like advisors. So it’s like, you know, the council wise council just kind of keeps you.

in line and then you know after that you know

set a time frame. You don’t have to have everything attached to your phone and you don’t have to go into it and have no barriers around it or boundaries around it. So for you, like you said, have 30 minutes I set, do it in the morning. I have to be intentional. So I have to go to my laptop or my desktop to do it. And then after that, I’m done. Like, you know, it’s going to be what it’s going to be. Like the Lord will take the rest of it over. I’m going to go live my life. And you know, when it’s time for me to come back and check it, I will.

Melvin Varghese (44:30.408)
Yeah, think especially all of us, I think especially as like people of faith, I think one of the things that we really have to be aware of is social media, the pull of social media and this pull of these algorithms is it makes you perceive yourself as like super important, you know?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (44:48.751)
Hmm.

Melvin Varghese (44:50.1)
And, like our identity then becomes on our, like how people are perceiving us. And I think that’s just like something I’m like keenly aware of. you know, and like in weird ways, like it’s in, it’s like in juxtaposition to like what Christ says, right? Our identity is in him. Right. And not in like the number of likes or followers or whatever, you know,

Camille McDaniel, LPC (44:56.313)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (45:01.52)
Okay, yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (45:18.05)
Right, right. I have literally said that to myself. I’m like, you know what?

Melvin Varghese (45:19.676)
Yeah, so.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (45:25.872)
with, you know, Christ in Private Practice podcast, I’m like, Lord, I will be thankful for whoever needs to hear this. You know, if if that’s five, if that’s 50, you know, whatever it is that you allow, I will be thankful. Like I have to try to, you know, just make sure I stay grounded in that, because you never know if it’s one or five people who hear it only that actually doesn’t tell you anything about the impact. And so, you know, obviously, the more people who hear but that one five that one person

Melvin Varghese (45:32.597)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (45:55.826)
might blast it out to five people or 50 people or a million people, who knows, right? So we have to just, yeah, be careful about that. That we, yeah, that we don’t allow our identity to slip into that external validation. Yeah, okay. Okay.

Melvin Varghese (45:57.866)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (46:12.648)
Yeah, that’s so beautifully said. yeah, I think the piece also is, you know, the trick of social media is also we like devalue the person, right, because we focus on the followers, right. So.

Like as you know, if you have a podcast, for example, right. And let’s say only three people listen like three people took time out of their day to listen. Right. And I think this is again, I don’t think I have this all figured out at all. But like the real pull is like, why am I not getting more numbers? Right. But we’re devaluing the person who took the time to listen, you know, for the sake of a number.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (46:41.904)
Bye.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (46:51.92)
you

Camille McDaniel, LPC (46:57.361)
Right, right. I think, okay, so then in my mind, okay, I see that as a balance, like keeping myself grounded and not getting overly, you know, focused and, you know, on just the numbers, but then also recognizing if the numbers aren’t climbing, are you doing all that you can? So and then that goes back to a lot of good nuggets you shared with us earlier, just to say like, you know, you that initial year or first year or two,

Melvin Varghese (47:14.464)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (47:25.87)
you are going to have to like, you know, do some work to kind of get it out there. And, and so, yeah, it shouldn’t be honestly, if you are doing the work to spread the word and share and cultivate information that people really do need to hear, you really won’t get just three people, you know, but to keep yourself like humble, you know, then it’s like, okay, wait a minute, I’ll be thankful for whatever the Lord allowed.

Melvin Varghese (47:42.817)
Yeah, yeah.

Melvin Varghese (47:48.044)
Yep.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (47:51.572)
but at the same time if I am putting in the work and working the steps I won’t I will see I will see the results of that you’ll see the fruits of your labor yeah okay

Melvin Varghese (48:01.816)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s a great phrase, get going, then get good, then get smart. Right. And that I try to think a lot about, you know, and I think like, a lot of us, I mean, especially because I feel like a lot of us as clinicians, we’re like, recovering perfectionists or overachievers, right. And we want to get good before we get going. And so trying like putting ourselves out there imperfect.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (48:07.97)
Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (48:24.42)
Yeah.

Melvin Varghese (48:30.2)
Just feels so terrifying, you know?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (48:30.36)
Yeah, I like that. and you know, as you say that, okay, so then for anyone listening who can identify with this, one of the things that I recognize, even though it does keep me humble, like just to say, you know, if all I have is three people, you know, then I’m thankful. But the other thing that I did recognize about myself in saying that is that being thankful for whatever number does stop me from having to push into the spotlight, which is what I don’t always like to do anyway. So then I’m

Possibly won’t check to see are you actually taking all the steps that you need to chape? Okay, so yeah, that was good. Okay. Thank you I caught that one. All right

Melvin Varghese (49:09.774)
Yeah, it’s a work in progress, you know, so.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (49:12.154)
All right. Well, can you please tell us, I know I would keep you here so much longer because I could definitely talk to you much longer, but I know that we have to go. You have a number of different services courses that are out there. Can you please share whatever it is that you would like for us to know so that we can find you so that we can take advantage of all that you have to offer?

Melvin Varghese (49:39.502)
Yeah, absolutely. so yeah, it’s again, my journey has been nine years, right, building out a lot of different things. The areas that I feel like I have, I’m, know, decent at is podcasting and courses specifically for therapists. So therapists that want to start a course or a podcast, we have two free things. I think that’s like the best way. So

The first one is what Camille alluded to. We have this seven day free email course to validate your course idea because I think that’s a area where a lot of clinicians get stuck of like, is this a good course idea? we gave, you know,

all of the exercises away in our like main mastermind, we put this into a course that’s over at CourseCreatorStarterKit .com. And then with podcasting, if you’re interested in starting a podcast, we have this free podcasting workshop, it’s about 90 minutes, you can watch it on your schedule. So on a day in time that works for you, that’s over at SellingTheCouch .com forward slash podcasting workshop.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (50:41.248)
Awesome, and we will as always put all of the information that was just listed on Christ in Private Practice. So, you know, if you’re listening to this on the go and you’re like, what was that? Don’t worry. Go over to Christ in Private Practice and ChristinPrivatePractice .com and then you will be able to see Dr. Melvin’s episode and all of the different links that were given that he has to offer.

of good information on those links that he just gave. So please definitely go on over there. It is definitely worth taking the time. Again, thank you so much for stopping, for talking with me, for answering these questions and helping us to prayerfully shine our light through podcasting, through YouTube, through course creation, to continue to help others in the world.

Melvin Varghese (51:40.048)
You’re so welcome, Camille. yeah, I’m just what a privilege to be able to do this and also like talk about this through the lens of faith. And yeah, I mean, I think my big takeaway is always just remember that God gave you all different gifts and just remember that you can use that gift to shine and serve others, but just always remember where the focus should still be right, which is still on Christ. Right. So

Camille McDaniel, LPC (52:07.856)
Absolutely. Thank you.

Melvin Varghese (52:10.256)
Thank you.