Healing the Whole Person by starting with God

Camille McDaniel, LPC (00:03.438)
Welcome back to another episode for everyone who is new. Welcome, welcome. And for everyone who has already been a follower and been listening, then it’s great to have you back. So today we’re going to be having a conversation and hopefully you will even join in maybe in the comments to give your opinions and your thoughts. We’re going to have a conversation with Dr. Tanya Paynter and we’re going to be talking just about like healing the whole person. So

We’re going to be going over like the intersection of medicine, mental health, and faith. But first, as always, I’d like to introduce you to Dr. Paynter and allow you to have a little bit more information about her or as Tanya is what she goes by. But Dr. Paynter, she is the CEO of Psalm Medical and the founder of My Grain Mastery.

She’s a naturopathic doctor specializing in helping women overcome chronic migraines through natural personalized care. Dr. Paynter obtained her bachelor’s of science in cellular and molecular biology from the University of Washington and got her naturopathic medical degree from Bastyr University. Dr. Paynter has spent nearly a decade empowering women to regain control of their health and reclaim joy in their lives.

a dedicated Christian, she answered a calling in 2019 to transition her successful clinical practice into an online platform, making her migraine mastery method accessible to women worldwide. But she’s actually made some transitions. And so this year in 2025, she’s going to be launching the Christian Women’s Health Fellowship. And that goes along with that whole mind body.

Spirit Healing, and she’ll probably reference that a bit as we talk together today. She’s also obtaining a master’s degree in Christian Apologetics from Colorado Christian University. So thank you so much, Tanya, for taking the time. It’s wonderful to have you today.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (02:13.388)
I’m excited to be here. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (02:16.93)
I am too. I know we had talked a little bit before on a previous date and there was just a lot, there’s a lot that we can talk about under this whole umbrella. we’re going to just jump right in with the intersection of medicine, mental health and faith. When we even talk about that, how do you feel that faith plays a role?

Dr. Tanya Paynter (02:25.252)
There’s a lot there.

the intersection of medicine, mental health, and faith.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (02:43.16)
in the overall healing? And what do you think that the whole mind-body-spirit connection, what’s it all about when it comes to holistic healing?

Dr. Tanya Paynter (02:54.658)
Yeah, so this is a great place to start with this conversation. think that where I tend to look at from, you through my journey through medical school, I was very science-based, very physical, very in the body. And as I have continued in practice, and now I’ve been in practice for over a decade, and just seeing how we can only get so far with physical modalities, right? Because we are spiritual beings.

And I started coming recently to the conclusion, like we have medicine completely twisted around. We are treating our physical bodies, which essentially is, if we think about it in a pyramid form, is at the very top of the pyramid. It’s the very last thing that starts showing symptoms. And it’s also the very last thing that we should be addressing. And so if we flip that paradigm around, instead of, you know, if we’re having physical symptoms, instead of addressing those physical symptoms, we should be backing up to

that foundation of the pyramid, which should be our relationship with God, right? And so if we’re spiritual beings and we don’t have a good connection with our spiritual father, then it makes sense that our emotional state isn’t gonna be where he meant it to be and our physical state follows. And we have so much research that shows that our physical state, our physical health is…

very closely tied to our emotional health. And I don’t think anybody would argue that, especially, you know, anybody in trauma therapy and people who have experienced that, right? And so if we take that a step farther and we actually focus first on our relationship with God, that changes our emotional fragility, it changes how we interpret the world, it changes our own view of our own traumas. And that in turn has healing effects, both emotionally and physically. So,

I think that we should be looking at faith first, then working on our emotional state, and then the last thing that we should be addressing is our physical state. Now that’s not to say to the exclusion of our physical health, right? If we have medications, we need to be taking them. If there are other remedies and things that we can do, herbals or supplements or dietary changes, and all of those things are extremely important, and nothing we’re gonna be talking about should ever counteract that, right? We still need to be taking care of these physical temples.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (05:15.918)
However, if we’re not engaging our relationship with God as part of our healing journey, I think we’re missing out on the biggest impact that we can have.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (05:25.22)
I that’s absolutely, yeah, I would stand with you on that one. So yes, I absolutely agree. Like you said, you put out there and that’s for anybody. Obviously, if you have any medication, if you have anything that you’ve been working with your doctor on to preserve your health, then you wanna keep on doing that. Don’t disrupt that. But I think that is kind of like a tertiary process. And if we’re really talking about like root causes of things and if we’re like, where are things stemming from? How have we gotten here?

you know, the state of our current health, the current wellness, mentally, physically, spiritually, then if we are going to, for someone who’s listening and maybe you’re not yet at a place where you’ve really had to talk with your doctor about, we’re going to have to consider this treatment that involves certain prescriptions, you know, and you’re just saying, I’m starting to just feel a shift. I’m starting to feel off. not, you know, things aren’t right in my life. Things aren’t right mentally. I don’t feel well physically. don’t, what’s going on?

then for those individuals like, hey, let’s start with the spiritual connection and what’s going on. And for those who are like, all right, well, what about us? We are, you know, already, you know, we’re taking the medications. We can’t just stop our prescription tomorrow, you know. And especially because like some individuals like, look, if you had your thyroid removed, we’re not saying like, know, you don’t need your thyroxine or whatever they prescribed you. But it’s saying,

Dr. Tanya Paynter (06:44.289)
Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (06:47.564)
Even if you’re at that place where maybe you are taking medicines, have you taken a look at how your spiritual imbalance has significantly impacted everything? I know that even in counseling, there are a lot of connections for my clients who are coming to me who have a faith based in Christ. There is a lot that I see in the mental health side that is stemming from a disconnect.

with their Lord and Savior. And that can be everything from sometimes clients actually being afraid of what the Lord is gonna say if they go to him and really open up wholeheartedly and ask for certain things or follow his will for their life. I mean, I’ve had a number of clients, they’re just afraid to hear back and what they’re afraid of, are.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (07:40.868)
That is for real. That is a real concern.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (07:46.838)
me, right? This is like real life. They’re like, if I what if what if what the father asks me to do is something that I don’t have on my radar, I don’t really want to have on my radar, you know, or what if this thing that I’ve wanted so so strongly is not his will for my life and he says no, you know, and so then I kind of shutting him out a bit then we say, I love him, but let me just kind of put him over here and I’m just gonna

I’m gonna do it my own way. I’m gonna kind of work on this myself. And I think I’m hearing that in a lot of your work, you found that that disconnect for whatever reasons, you know, really then it’s kind of like a starts a little bit of an avalanche if you’d say, you know, to greater problems coming up.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (08:36.982)
Yeah, I mean, there’s a reason that we’re instructed that we have to die to self, right? We have to take up our cross every day. Like, yeah, there’s sacrifice involved in following him, but there’s also so much reward. And I have an interesting story about the whole fear thing. When I first started this kind of online journey, I was, remember praying in the shower because, you know, we’re better to pray, right?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:47.292)
one

Dr. Tanya Paynter (09:00.728)
So praying in the shower and I remember asking him, if I’m gonna do this, like what’s my five-year plan? Cause I gotta know what I’m doing and I gotta know how I’m getting there. And he’s like, you’re not ready to hear what I have for you yet. And I was like, what? And he’s like, just don’t worry about it. Just follow the steps and we’ll go, you’ll get there, but I’m not telling you. And I just remember thinking, why wouldn’t he tell me? And back then there is no way you would have

caught me dead talking to somebody on a podcast about religion and faith and any of this, right? I was very, yup. And so, and he knew that, like he knew that about me and he knew that I would have absolutely refused him. I would have said no. So I share that because now here I am, I’m getting a master’s in Christian apologetics. I’m starting a Christian faith based program in the natural medical world, which actually is, yeah, I’ll just leave it at that.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (09:35.863)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (09:56.966)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (09:59.584)
And so, it’s just very interesting to note in my personal journey how he led me step by step. I didn’t get to know the final step, but he knew the whole time and he only gave me those pieces. They were hard steps. I’m not going to deny that, but they were very doable, right? I just had to put that effort. So he didn’t say, no, you can’t practice in your successful clinic anymore. No, you can’t do this, but

Camille McDaniel, LPC (09:59.644)
Yep.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (10:28.588)
I also want you to do this. I want you to start working over here a little bit. And I found that as I stopped fighting that and started walking in his will, my desires changed and I started really enjoying the group work and engaging in a much more personal level with this online program than I did in my clinic that I only got to touch bases with somebody once every three months. And the relationship screw. And then I was actually able to like,

be there online for them, answering questions in real time as I’m sitting at my desk doing other things and a message would pop up and I could chat with them. And I just found like, I loved this. This was amazing and the relationships were so much better. And I was able to help hold them accountable too because they knew that I was there and I was kind of checking in with them on a weekly basis. So they knew like, they probably better have something to report to me, right?

So then I just started seeing a lot more improvement. Nobody fell through the cracks. And anyway, long story short, it’s just, it’s amazing to see how your heart changes and your desires change. And my goals now are completely different than they were five years ago. And he took me very gently through that. hopefully that’s an encouragement for somebody. Like he’s not mean. He doesn’t make us do things that we absolutely have no desire to do, but he encourages us to make those steps in faith.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (11:38.46)
Thank

Dr. Tanya Paynter (11:51.49)
and then our desire changes to become more in alignment with his will.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (11:55.514)
And isn’t that awesome that, like you said, you are a five-year person, like, give me the plan. Like, I need to know the blueprint, what’s the steps, what’s the, right, you know, and for a lot of us, it’s kind of like, okay, if you could just kind of tell me how this is gonna go ahead of time, then I can kind of assess. And the Lord is like, no.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (12:00.718)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (12:17.582)
No, no, no, no, no, you don’t get that.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:20.56)
Yeah, right. No, you don’t know all things, all pieces, all parts, all the time. So just hold tight. Just lean on me. And that can be as much as we may love the Lord. That can be a part that we really sometimes have to work on. And I think it sounds like what you shared in your story, like that progression is totally scriptural because it says, you know, commit your works to the Lord and, you know, your thoughts will be established.

You know, and also in the Bible, it talks about how he will give you the desires of your heart, you know? And so you noticed yourself, like literally it was like, I never even could have imagined that I would be here. You know, I never could have imagined that I would have wanted to be so passionate about this particular thing and taking this path. But you opened yourself up to him fully. And that’s where sometimes the fear comes in for a lot of people to turn over the reins to him fully, even though we may love him.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (12:50.564)
Hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (13:15.152)
so much turning the reins over and being vulnerable and not always knowing what lies ahead is a little scary, you know, but.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (13:24.644)
And he knows that about us too, right? And so if he knows, like if someone is stepping out in fear, it’s okay to say, God, I can only handle, and he knows, but sometimes to actually voice it to him, like he wants us to ask him too. A lot of times he will wait for us to ask him, right? He wants us to recognize things in ourselves. And so as we turn to him, just say, God, I really want to be in your will, but I am scared of what you’re gonna ask me to do. So can you please just give me one small thing

that I can do that will lead me in the direction you want me to go so that my heart can start changing to be in alignment with you. And that was the prayer that I started praying, not like show me what I’m doing or give me reasons. I realized like I wasn’t getting anywhere with those prayers. So instead I changed my prayers to God, please change my heart and show me how I can best serve you, but please make it doable for me. And he did.

I’m not saying it was easy. There’s definitely, and I’m not saying like I was great at it either. There was a lot of bucking the yoke for a while. So that will be a thing. But I mean, here I am five years later and the change in my relationship with him and the change in my own physical health is astounding to me because I wasn’t even like I was in a, on a plateau with my health and it was fine. Like I was managing.

but there were still pains, my thyroid wasn’t great, like my hormones were way off, I was struggling with some anxiety depression issues, but it was all manageable, I was fine. And now it’s like those things have all resolved and I didn’t do a single thing over those five years physically to make any difference. And yet I’m sleeping well, my hormones are back in balance. And I didn’t do anything else besides just start working in alignment with him and that wasn’t even a purpose for me. And I started seeing this happen.

I think that was also part of my journey and my story, right? Like to learn this is how we’re supposed to be living in his will first and then everything else falls into place. Now, again, as we’ve talked about, it’s definitely, you can start at any point in your health journey and he doesn’t always provide healing, right? Like it’s very clear in the Bible, Paul asked, remove this thorn three times. Like you can’t get a better servant than Paul, I don’t think.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:34.268)
Yeah, right.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (15:35.172)
And he still had to struggle with his physical issues. So I’m not saying this is like a magical God’s gonna cure all cure because that’s not the way he works. But we can start seeing the changes in ourselves, in our emotions and in our physical body, even within our illnesses that make things just so much easier to bear during this time on earth.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:56.442)
Absolutely, I wholeheartedly see that. And so like when you’re working with clients, one other thing that comes up that I wanna kind of throw your way is clients who have some kind of history with trauma, whether childhood trauma, things that can again cause us to block off that spiritual side. If we are looking at healing being a mind, body, spirit approach,

What about those individuals who have experienced trauma that you see or have seen, you know, in your practice? How does that trauma kind of hold them up or stop them or, I don’t know, impart fear or guilt or double-mindedness, whatever it is, what do you notice?

Dr. Tanya Paynter (16:46.712)
Yeah, that’s a great question. So as a part of my apologetics program that I’m in, we’ve looked at the different types of doubt that we have in God. so there’s, you when I just thought there was like, show me the facts, and that’s the doubts that we have, right? Like, show me the evidence that God’s, you know, true, and show me the evidence that the Bible’s true. Like, I wanted to know all the evidence. Well, that’s factual doubt, and that’s actually one of the least, not common, but

the least important doubts, essentially, because those are very easily solved. You just look for the facts and they’re there. They’re overwhelmingly there. But really what we’re talking about when it comes to trauma is twofold. One is the emotional doubt. know, what if, you know, what if God isn’t there because I experienced this? You know, doubting that he exists because you haven’t seen evidence of him in your life.

So those are emotional doubts that can be very, very powerful and they don’t follow logic. Like you can know one thing and you can feel a different way. And so it’s reconciling, you know, all right, well, my brain knows one thing, but my heart’s telling me something different. How do I reconcile these two? And so that’s where we then have to kind of assess what about the trauma? Like, how did that affect my relationship with God? Do I blame God? Am I angry at him for what happened?

Do I feel ashamed and so I’m hiding from him? What is it, how did that trauma affect your relationship specifically with God? And this is really hard because I think that in a lot of cases, there is a lot of anger and then that anger as a Christian, we don’t wanna acknowledge that because that’s blasphemous, that’s we’re being a bad Christian. The funny thing is if we hide it, God knows.

So the only person that we’re hiding it from is ourselves. And so what he really wants is he wants us to pull that out and recognize it because that anger is keeping us from him. And so if there is that anger there, it’s okay. It’s okay to have anger. God understands that you’re angry at him for what happened and he wants to work through it, but he can’t if you’re not willing to talk to him about it, right? And so that brings up, you know, that, all right, well, that’s great.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (18:34.117)
Yes.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (19:03.566)
but I don’t wanna talk to him about it, right? So then it becomes a will. Then there’s the doubt of, it’s called volitional doubt, where we don’t have the will to want to engage with him because we’re angry, it’s gonna bring up too many bad emotions, know, whatever it is. And so then it’s just easier, and it is easier just to keep him at bay, but then we’re harboring that anger, we’re harboring that trauma, even though we’re trying to work through it from a counseling perspective, from a physical perspective.

We can’t fully let go of it until we address that last component with God directly. And so we have to get ourselves to a healthy enough place emotionally to be able to want to address it with God. And then things can start to finally clear up. We can start to let go of things. I have my own experience with trauma and went through the whole, know, why did this happen? I still don’t understand the purpose. And it took me a while to get over my own shame and guilt as a result of that.

But when I finally realized that there was a misunderstanding of what I thought I was supposed to do, what I thought the Bible was telling me I was supposed to do. So once I dove deeper, and if we had more time, I’d go into it. But once I dove deeper into the Bible, into prayer, and just asking him, you know, look, I don’t have the strength to do this. I don’t have the strength to talk to you about this. I need your help.

One of the things that I love is to talk about scream prayers. And I don’t know if anybody knows what I’m talking about, but it is where, yeah, yeah, it’s where you use the Holy Spirit’s intercession for your prayer, which it’s extremely powerful if you’ve never done it, because sometimes our words or our feelings are so overwhelming, we don’t have words for it.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (20:35.473)
Nils share with.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (20:49.474)
And so in those cases, I will just do an internal scream and I will like let out all of my frustration and anger at God, at the situation, at the person, at myself, at whatever. And I just scream it in my head, right? And the Holy Spirit takes that and he interprets that for us. Like God knows. And we can use the power of the Holy Spirit to help us let go of some of those emotions. And it’s amazing. Every time I’ve done it, I’ve only done a handful of times, because I haven’t felt.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (21:08.07)
Yes.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (21:18.084)
I feel like the more desperate we are, the less words we have, right? And so when I finally got to that point of desperation and I just did this scream and it was literally an internal scream, my whole body just felt it. And then I just felt this wash of love and peace come over me. And I was like, where did this come from? Like I just burst into tears and I just felt his love enveloping me. And it was just so amazing. I was like, okay.

I’m really angry at him and I just like screamed in his face and yet here he is giving me a spiritual hug, right? And so it’s those kinds of experiences that I went through that helped me to understand like it’s my own hangup that is keeping me from him because he is there and ready to wrap us in a hug as soon as we approach him.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:06.416)
And I think that I see that a lot with my own clients. And so I’m glad you shared it in that way because it’s putting sometimes God in a box to say, know, either, well, I’ll say sometimes it’s the anger. Cause I have had clients and I do currently have clients who they’re like, me and God, we’re not so good right now. You know, it’s like, right. And

Dr. Tanya Paynter (22:29.188)
I’m not on talking terms right now.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:32.794)
You know, and being able to even say that sometimes I can see a discomfort in that because it’s like, you’re not supposed to, like you just said, we’re not supposed to talk that way. We’re not supposed to say that, you know, but the Lord’s not so fragile that he cannot hear your honest thoughts. And like, he already knows the heart, right? So, so he knows what’s going on. As we just talked about earlier, it’s like, you’re not hiding it from him.

you’re hiding it from yourself. And so being able to kind of come out of that and just really be real with God. But then there’s another side as well where I’ve seen in my counseling practice that sometimes people just really aren’t fully sure that God can handle it. It’s like, you know, if I do open up and say this thing, will he be able to really direct me? Will he be able to pull me out? Will he be able to really heal me? Because there

Filtering him through their own mind, you know as human beings were limited So we try to figure out how God’s gonna figure something out using our own mind We are going to be stuck. All right, and it’s it it reminds me of this of it was a philosophical I think riddle a long time ago like when I was in my 20s that they told at a job that I had my manager said like

And it just so happened I was taking a philosophy class that semester where I knew the answer, but it was saying, you how can something finite measure and understand something infinite? And I can’t remember what the riddle really was, but that was the answer to it really. And so we’re trying to in our, you know, finite ability really kind of wrap our mind around how is he gonna pull me out of this? How is he gonna deal with these emotions or these thoughts or, I’ve really

I’ve thought some bad thoughts about the way I feel about him or the questions I have or the anger toward him. Why didn’t he help me? Why didn’t he save me? Why did this happen? Or if it’s about themselves, there’s just so many different things. And it’s like, stop, just try them, just lean into it. And so I think that’s where for those of us who have experienced trauma, one of the things that helps us move through that stuck

Dr. Tanya Paynter (24:37.092)
Mm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (24:49.02)
and really again bring on the spiritual side to this mind, body, spirit approach is to open up and try him. Like you said, give him a try. See if he can’t handle what he has already promised you he can. And that can create for some of my clients who’ve gotten at least to that place, that can create some healing, some great healing for them.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (24:59.288)
This

Camille McDaniel, LPC (25:16.164)
And for clients who have not gotten to that place, and I guess this is also for like my mental health professionals who are listening, or anyone else for that matter who is working with and helping someone who is experiencing some anger toward God, some questioning, some doubt, some hurt feelings, patience, grace, and mercy is great. I have a client now, so funny.

She said, if I knew that you were a Christian counselor, I probably wouldn’t have come to see you. And I said, well, how did you find me? It’s all on my website and the directory. And how did you not see it? And she said, I literally put out in a mom group online that I needed a therapist. I wanted them to be these specific things. And somebody was like, you should try her. So I just called. And I said, that’s so funny. I said, because.

At that point in time in our counseling time together, she was coming back to connect with Christ again and had had some things occur that made her kind of shut that communication off. And I said, well, doesn’t he just know us because that’s why he didn’t want you to begin with it. We shared like a cute laugh about that one because now, you know, she has been able to open herself up and deal with some of the things that she was

Dr. Tanya Paynter (26:30.432)
Yeah, right?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:42.908)
not feeling right about and something else you had mentioned earlier was check her understanding. There were some understandings that she had and they didn’t align with what the Lord said. There were some things that she thought he was supposed to do and things that she thought were true about other, know, the kingdom of darkness and it did not align. So as we gained some clarity, some understanding, she was able to also then get some answers.

and some clarity on her understanding and take of what her experiences were. Yeah.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (27:18.34)
I think that’s a really great point because as I am diving deeper into the Word and in this master’s program and some of the philosophy and theology, I’m realizing how much bad teaching there is around biblical principles and how there are just a lot of churches that are not… They’re 90, 95 % there, but that 5, 10 % is really, really important.

Satan likes to just take things and twist it just enough, right? And so I think that there’s a lot of, know, we talk about trauma and we talk about, you know, coming to God and being angry, but there’s also a lot of church trauma that I’ve started to see. And I just want to say to anybody who might be struggling with that, understanding that God, you know, we are imperfect humans and we don’t represent Him well in…

I would probably say in most cases, right? And so I see a lot of holding God to blame for the actions of the Christian community. And we’re supposed to represent Christ on earth. And when we don’t do that well, we separate other people from him. And so if you’re one who feels that they’ve been separated from God because of another person’s actions, and you don’t wanna, for the longest time, for about 20 years of my life,

I actually didn’t want to be known as a Christian. I was ashamed to be known as a Christian because of some of the things I’d experienced, the judgment that I see, the hate that I see online from Christians, from Christian groups. my goodness. And it’s like, wow. So I would just really encourage that someone who’s experienced that to remember that there is an absolute difference between a Christian and God. And if a Christian and experiences with the church and things have separated you.

to see what it looks like to just be in the word, in the Bible and prayer on your own first, work on that interpersonal relationship and then you can look at expanding out into the church. I mean, we are called to be in fellowship, right? But it’s important to find the right people to fellowship with. And it can be very difficult to find a church that is open arm welcoming you as you are while still holding the truth and helping you out of sin.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (29:37.954)
So that’s a very fine line and not a lot of Christians walk it well, think. Myself included, I’m sure. I try, but I fail too, right?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:45.542)
Yes, and we’re human, we have to kind of like, you know, check ourselves, make sure that we’re staying aligned. But I think that goes back to making sure that our relationship with Christ is close enough that we can hear him, that he can still tug on us, that he can still correct us so that if we do do something, say something, you know, that’s not right, then we kind of, we get a rebuke and it’s like, okay, wrong way, you know. But we don’t want to go.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (29:59.32)
Yes.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (30:10.11)
Sorry,

Camille McDaniel, LPC (30:15.238)
We don’t want to go our own path so far that we don’t hear any rebuke because we are human and therefore we do have things we have to watch out for and have fault. I know that that’s a hard topic sometimes for Christians to hear when it’s like, well, Christians are not, you know, can kind of feel defensive and be like, well, you know, not all Christians are that way or don’t say that out loud. And it’s like, well, you know what? In love, we say, hey, we have to watch out because we are, we, when we may.

misrepresent the Bible, misrepresent the Lord. It can really cause a lot of damage. And here we’re talking about a mind, body, spirit approach. And it can cause damage that causes somebody to move forward and say, you know what? I don’t need that spirit part. I don’t need to worry about that. I’m just gonna go ahead with the other. I’m just gonna take care of mind and body, not realizing that the spirit is very important in all of that. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, we have to.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (31:00.484)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (31:12.368)
I think that also goes to, you know, the Lord says, you my people are lost for lack of knowledge. And so I think it to, have to build up our understanding of what we believe. You got to know.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (31:25.592)
And work out your own salvation and fear and trembling. Like there is absolutely a personal responsibility for us to make sure that we are studying the Bible because, you know, pastors can mislead us and the Bible even calls out the wolf in sheep’s clothing, right? yeah, but you know, he’s our shepherd. And so as long as we’re listening for his voice, the Holy Spirit gives us discernment. So we’re able to.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (31:40.662)
As it does say, absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (31:51.236)
And I find that it’s a very hard line to walk, right? Like I don’t wanna say that we’re all doing terrible jobs as Christians, but I mean, I can think right off the top of my head of a billion instances where I was like, wow, I was really judgmental or I did not say that in a loving way or whatever the case may be. And so we just learn from that. But then we also understand that there’s a very fine line between then caving to

the sinful, secular, fleshly world and just accepting somebody’s sin in love, right? There’s a difference between accepting the sin in love and accepting the sinner in love. And Jesus walked that perfectly. And I don’t think the rest of us have really been able to figure out how to do that. Like, how do you show love for the person while gently steering them away? And sometimes it’s not even our place, right? Like we don’t have to address all the sins. Sometimes we just have to be that loving person. Jesus sat and ate with

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:31.644)
That’s it.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (32:48.014)
prostitutes and tax collectors and he didn’t necessarily lecture them on their life choices. Like he was just showing them love and as they walked with him, they started to realize what he was saying on their own, right? Like we can plant those seeds without having to be that judgmental person saying, well, you’re going to hell if you continue in that lifestyle choice or whatever it is.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (33:07.388)
And I think, yeah, I think it definitely goes back to that. We have to just be mindful of how we’re going to deliver it. How do we stand in what we believe, but we do it in love, but also do it in honesty, right? We can speak the truth, speak it in love, right? And I think that that makes a big difference because even as you’re sharing that, it makes me think of the woman who was caught in the act of adultery and she was caught in the act and it’s like,

the leaders of the day brought her to Jesus to see what he was going to say about what we should do because the law says we should stone her. in the end, obviously, he ends up saying he without sin cast the first stone. However, there was two important things I think he said to her, the woman, after asking, like, hey, where are your accusers? And then she’s like, I don’t know. And he said two things. He told her to go and he also told her to sin no more.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (33:43.278)
Hmm?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:04.954)
It’s not as though he didn’t keep to still the reason why he was there and his laws, you know, because he told her like, hey, I mean, that’s, still not right. So go on about your way, move forward in your life. Don’t sin anymore, you know? And so I think there’s a way that you can say things again in love, but in truth, if you’re called to do so, you know, that’s it. Right. Right. Recognize your assignment.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (34:26.464)
Exactly. think that’s important if you’re called to do so.

That’s right. And don’t step outside of that.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:35.42)
Stay in assignment. So that’s

Dr. Tanya Paynter (34:39.044)
Well, and I think there’s one other, I think, important point to that story as well, that he who cast the first stone, or he without sin cast the first stone. The only one in that circle was Jesus and he chose not to. And he knew her were sins, right? And so that just kind of comes back around to our conversation about faith and healing and being afraid to engage with God. Like he already knows. And yet, and he has the opportunity to do whatever he wants.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:52.284)
Mmm.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (35:09.346)
but he’s clothed us in righteousness. Like we’re forgiven already. We just have to step into that forgiveness. And that’s where I think it’s really hard for a lot of us to do that when we don’t feel worthy. But here’s the secret. None of us are worthy. That’s the whole point. Doesn’t matter. know, we’re, God sees it things I think in black and white, right? You’re either sin or you’re not sin. And if you believe in Jesus, you’re not sin.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (35:26.812)
that part.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (35:36.294)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (35:36.312)
We’re the ones who see the gray. Well, I’m not worthy or I, you this makes me a terrible person or I have this guilt and that’s not the way God sees it. So that’s why, you know, if we can bring that out of ourselves, it’s our own judgment that we have to overcome, not his.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (35:50.876)
Yes, absolutely. We are, yeah, we are ad-libbing and just add all kinds of things to it that he’s like, what in the world? never said that. I know we’re not doing that. What are you doing? You know, so I think as, and I know we’re, as we’re going to have to wrap our time up together, because there are so many different topics that we could probably branch off to and have whole other episodes on. But, know, when you’re, when you’re thinking, I think this is what I’ve got from

Dr. Tanya Paynter (35:53.028)
Thank

I’m

Camille McDaniel, LPC (36:20.774)
from even our talk today and you tell me, but just the way that counselors who are just helping provide care for people, the way that we can actually like introduce an approach that’s holistic as far as the mind, the body, the spirit, it sounds like what we can do is first of all, make sure we have an understanding of what that person’s understanding of their faith is. So, you know, they’re coming and they happen to be.

a person of faith in Christ and just understanding what that even means to them and then better understanding how this individual might want that integrated into their experience, their time with us, for us to be knowledgeable about our faith as believers in Christ so that we have the opportunity, if applicable,

to add knowledge, add wisdom, give correct information where there might be misinformation that can allow them to be able to heal on a spiritual level, to pray for our clients and intercede. And sometimes we might be the only one standing in the gap for our clients. And to make sure that we well-informed them, like you were saying, as we talked at the top of this podcast episode,

that they know to work well with their medical professionals. Like we’re not saying because we are going to be focusing on strengthening the spiritual that we all of a sudden abandoned everything that you talked about with your medical professional. And then the other thing that I think is always important we didn’t necessarily touch on, but is important is just community. Being able to have others that.

can sharpen us. The Bible says, iron sharpens iron. And so we want to be able to have, it doesn’t have to be a ton of people, but we want to be able to have just a good community where we can be fed, we can be loved, we can be nourished, we can be prayed for, that our spiritual person can really thrive, which then allows us to get a lot of clarity on other things that we should be doing during our time here on this earth.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (38:38.3)
and that we can then obviously walk out in the physical and walk out in the mental.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (38:44.93)
And that’s one of the reasons that I feel like I’ve been called into creating the Christian Women’s Health Fellowship is exactly for that reason, because this is kind of a unique approach, right? This is not really something that you’re not gonna walk into your doctor’s office or most counselors office and be able to have these kinds of conversations. And so…

And as you mentioned, iron shripens iron. So having that community of people who are trying to work on health things, but understand that their relationship with God may either help them or harm them depending on if it’s in a good place or a bad place, right? And so what does it look like to have a healthy, good relationship with God? I think we all, I don’t know that any human being is gonna be able to answer that question, but we can all walk it out together and help to encourage each other and sharpen each other.

And I really feel like that’s where he’s been calling me. That’s why really excited to get this program launched is because just to have that community of women working on their health from a holistic standpoint and making God the center of it. just, it brings me chills. I’m excited.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (39:39.153)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (39:54.972)
Yes, I’m excited for you. So you have to keep us updated, you know, and then that way I can share with everybody and they can have another resource, trusted resource to go to. then Tanya, please tell us now what’s your website? Like how can people find you if they are just looking for more information?

Dr. Tanya Paynter (40:00.002)
Absolutely.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (40:13.998)
So you can find me at PsalmMedical.com and that’s Psalm as in the book of Psalms. Or you can also email me directly at JesusHeals at PsalmMedical.com. you’re not gonna find a ton of information on the Christian Women’s Health Fellowship yet that is in the works and will be launching later this year. anybody is definitely welcome to reach out and ask any questions. One thing I’d love to say real quick, Camille, before we wrap up.

is you had mentioned about the providers that may be listening. And one thing that I just want to say as a word of warning, as we’re considering how we can incorporate helping people understand biblical truth, is just the warning that is given in James about those of us who are teaching, the extra responsibility that we have.

And I feel like if we’re not pastors, we don’t really pay attention to that. I felt very called as I’m stepping into this role of podcasts and apologetics and then with the Christian Women’s Health Fellowship, I am absolutely taking on that role, which scares the heck out of me, but I’m gonna be judged to a higher standard. So if it’s somebody who is thinking that they really want to, like they liked what they heard today, this is something that they’ve been called to do.

Take that warning very seriously. Make sure you really are working with your pastor and that you have some good solid doctrine so that we’re not accidentally stepping into the role of a false teacher or somehow distorting God’s word. I just wanna kind of throw that out there for anybody who’s listening. And on the flip side of it for patients.

being very aware and discerning is what this person telling me in alignment with biblical values, right? And so you can actually help to teach the counselor if they’re saying something incorrect, or that also opens up some awesome dialogue. If you guys don’t agree on what something means, like let’s have a conversation about it let’s both figure it out together because that’s where we’re supposed to be in community. So I just wanted to kind of throw that little public safety announcement.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (42:20.716)
good one. Thank you for the warning. We all we all want to operate right and in order so we we don’t want to cross any lines and get a rebuke from the Lord. yes we’re good. So thank you so much and thank you for taking the time today to talk with me.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (42:23.16)
I’m sorry.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (42:30.412)
No review.

Dr. Tanya Paynter (42:36.224)
Absolutely. This was great. I loved it. Thank you, Camille.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (42:38.842)
Yeah, you’re welcome.

CPP Ep. 21 Healing the Whole Person by starting with God