Christian Counseling Cannot Be an Anchor if Christ Isn’t Defined

Camille McDaniel (00:14.764)
Welcome back to another episode of Christ in private practice It’s really good to have you here again with me and I want to just say thank you for coming along with me on this journey I want to say thank you also because we had a spike in viewership and listeners So I want to thank you for sharing the podcast episodes with those who you feel could really benefit from it

I really appreciate that just being able to spread the information so that others who may be looking for clarity and looking for directions in business and integrating Christ will feel empowered. So thank you. Thank you very much for that. It has not gone unnoticed. Today we’re going to be kind of walking through a topic that I think a lot of people have.

either felt or maybe heard or seen online, but it’s not really talked about a lot. And that is the fear of integrating our faith. And we don’t want to have that fear, but sometimes we do wonder. There are sometimes things that we see said online that would let us know.

that some do still believe that it is very unethical to have your faith integrated into private practice. I know I have. I’ve seen even as recent as a month or two ago, actually, another, well, actually it was more than one mental health professional was just questioning, bringing your faith into the counseling practice and how it doesn’t belong there. And that’s very unethical. And they really had some

Concerned about people who did that and so, you know, they there were just a few of People a few people that actually were commenting at that time But I’ve seen it, know outside of that as well. So it’s obviously something That people really aren’t sure about Also, you know again we do have some teaching even in our graduate studies

Camille McDaniel (02:34.668)
that would go back to us leaving ourselves at the door and really focusing only on the client. And in that teaching, it never really incorporated the fact that the client might be coming and have a worldview that is shaped by their faith and that they wanted not only their faith honored in the counseling room, but they actually wanted their faith integrated. That’s not really usually something that we hear.

talked about in our studies and sometimes not talked about in our trainings. And so I can see why some may believe that it really is unethical. But that then causes for those of us who do integrate Christ into our treatment and counseling and that is a part of our worldview, it can cause some people to question, you know. So we’re going to be…

talking about it more today. Now, if you have been with me since like the beginning of Christ in private practice, I mean, just if you you have then you might remember episode two where we actually did talk about the foundations of Christian counseling. And in that we talked about like prayer and ethics, transparency, know, worldview and some resources and all, all of that good stuff. But it went

You know to like a foundation place, but I want to go beyond that foundation place today, so Knowing the basics is like you know it’s not the same as actually feeling confident in actually walking out that that you know in your business and so We’re going to jump into that because I know that there are

a lot of counselors who feel a pull to integrate their faith. And there are a lot of counselors who are already doing just that. But there are many who are somewhat in the middle and sometimes, you know, fear causes them to hesitate or hold back. So today’s episode, it’s about, you know, the fears that do show up.

Camille McDaniel (05:00.244)
Sometimes they’re silent, sometimes they’re super loud, how we can actually recognize them, how we can challenge them, and how we can then allow it to influence our business in positive ways, ethically, with courage we move forward, right? And with clarity we move forward. It allows us to do that in our business. So.

You know, let’s kind of get comfortable wherever you may be. If you happen to be listening to me while you’re in route somewhere like driving, then focus on the road. If you happen to be in a place where you can just kind of take notes or you can relax for a moment or two and just settle on in. Let’s go ahead and jump into the topic for today and start right where

we talked about with regards to the fears. So let’s kind of jump into some of those maybe quiet fears that, again, they are kind of looming in different areas, in different rooms, if you will, whether online rooms or in-person rooms. And they’re not really being talked about a lot. So I want to start by kind of normalizing it. If you have felt

any kind of hesitation or fear in integrating your faith and just know this, you’re really not alone. Sometimes it’s not always hesitation because of just fear. Sometimes it’s just hesitation because people don’t want to make a misstep. know, again, there are some concerns. And so a couple of the ones that have been said or I’ve heard over time,

is that I don’t want to get in trouble with a licensing board. So people are concerned that maybe their clients might make a complaint against them or their colleagues might make a complaint. Somehow they are going to end up with their name in a complaint with the licensing board. And that actually causes them great concern, obviously. It makes sense why.

Camille McDaniel (07:22.382)
Sometimes people are concerned and worried that you people are going to think that they are pushing their beliefs on someone else or What if something that they share about faith integrated into counseling, know in Christian counseling services gets them like canceled online, you know how that goes with cancel culture

these days and people are kind of nervous to speak up because they don’t want to get verbally demolished by keyboard warriors online. And so that’s that’s a thing. We kind of talked about this a little bit in another the previous episode where, you know, people might worry, well, what if I don’t know enough scripture? What if

spiritual issues come up in my session and I don’t know what to do. So, you know, these are real, they’re real fears, they’re real concerns and it’s, you know, not a sign that you’re not capable, but it does indicate that you need clarity, not avoidance. We don’t want to avoid, you know, moving forward with what the Lord is telling us to do in our business.

But you need clarity as you move forward. so I want to, you know, I want to help. Let’s let’s process that because, you know, fear and and kind of worry. It fills in the blanks. You know, it really does. And it speaks against your calling. And and instead, what we want to do is just gain more understanding. We just want to gain more wisdom because faith integration

It is not unethical. It’s not. We’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about that. it is not irresponsible. It is, it is when done correctly, you know, when done ethically, it’s a skill. It is a skill and it’s a skill that people are looking for. And so we want to, we want to acknowledge that fear just has no place.

Camille McDaniel (09:45.994)
And I know the Bible says that God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a power and a sound mind. And we want to be able to walk forward with clarity in thought and stand firm on what we know to be true. And that will empower us to be able to move forward without fear. So that’s where we’re going to jump into one of the fears or concerns that people

have and that’s about like losing their losing their license or getting reported to the board you know this this fear that counselors have Christian counselors have that you know at some point it’s going to be said that they were practicing unethically because they wanted to integrate faith into their into their business model you know so we we want to get real clear if I have not

You know, said it enough already. I’m going to just state it again that if you talk about faith and if you actually use that in your practice, it is not unethical because at some point people feel as though that they are breaking some ethical code, but they’re not. And I’ll let you know that in all the ethical boards.

the American Counseling Association, the American Psychological Association, National Association for Social Workers, American Association for Marriage Family Therapists, even CCPA in Canada, they all agree on a few things that I’m going to share here, and that is one, that you can’t impose your beliefs on someone else. So that’s one thing we already know, you cannot push your beliefs.

onto somebody else, that is unethical, you know, to push your beliefs. Why? Because to push somebody is like to force somebody to take in something that they are not wanting to as far as a standard for their living. That’s not what they are coming for as it relates to faith. Now, obviously that is separate and apart from if you are telling somebody how they can heal from a particular

Camille McDaniel (12:08.726)
challenge in their life or know ailment in their life and you are saying you would have to do these things in order to to gain healing because they’re coming to you for your expertise in that area. So if someone is coming to you and they say I would like my my Christian faith integrated into this counseling I would like it. Yes, I agree that it should line up with biblical truth. Yes, I agree with all of that.

let me know is this in accordance with the word that I follow. Well, then that’s totally different. all the boards of, you know, the ethical boards as far as like, you know, what I just mentioned, our ACA, APA, all of that, they do say you cannot impose your beliefs onto somebody, you know, and they’re not a willing participant and you can.

However, integrate the client’s beliefs, which is what I was just describing. And you must give them informed consent. You must practice within your scope, within your competency level. And for those who are like, okay, well, there you go. That’s what I said. I don’t know enough scripture. You’re going to get the resources though. You are going to build them up.

You’re going to start doing the things that will allow you to gain confidence over time. You’ve got to start somewhere. So you’re going to start doing that by continuing to educate yourself. And there are definitely some really great resources. I know the American Association of Christian Counseling has a full on, full blown website full of resources. And I believe some of them might even be free resources, but you have to check and take a look at that.

the episodes in my podcast here with Christ in Private Practice. There are variety of topics, ethics included, and so that’s a resource for you. you have definitely resources of where to just gain more knowledge on how to integrate what you’re reading in the Bible with, you know, with the different treatment plans. I have also colleagues in the field who have created resources.

Camille McDaniel (14:36.554)
And I’m going to list those because they’re good. actually, you I have one of those myself. so, you know, there’s online Amazon stores have definitely resources where biblical truth is integrated into certain treatment modalities that are helpful. So you have more than enough resources around you and at your disposal for you to be able to be competent.

Something else that the Board of Ethics will say, you have to avoid coercion. Now you cannot coerce anybody into accepting faith integration. That is unethical, right? However, you can use the fact that your client’s faith is a support for them. And if they shared with you, my Christian faith is a support that I would like integrated into my counseling experience.

then you can use because you have gained their consent to do so, you can use their faith. It’s not unethical. There is nothing unethical about asking clients about their faith journey, about their walk, integrating scripture for clients who request it, praying with clients who ask for it, using biblical principles as a framework.

advertising Christian counseling or even approaching counseling from a Christ-centered worldview. These are actually all permissible under the codes whenever they are done ethically. So when you see individuals talking in person, online, and they’re questioning whether or not clinicians who use their faith

in their private practice modalities, if they’re being ethical, you can stand firmly, you can stand confidently in knowing that pretty much all of the boards of ethics do say that when used correctly, it is all supported by your ethical boards. Absolutely. Now, fear may show up to say like, are you sure? Yeah, I don’t know.

Camille McDaniel (17:01.582)
You really shouldn’t use it.

All right, get that out. Fear may, and that was a sneeze just for anybody who’s like, what just happened? Who’s not watching me on YouTube? That was a sneeze. Fear might show up and it might try to cause you to back down, but that’s why we’re talking and why I’m giving concrete facts because when you have the information,

solid information, you can stand confidently, you can show up in person or online and have good quality professional discussions where you can inform people about the fact that, hey, you I don’t know if you know this, but our ethical codes support what is being done. Why? Because people would like this part of their lives.

to not be ignored. Not everybody wants that to be put to the side. And it’s not everybody who just has no faith base. So we want to make sure that we are also being respectful of those who are saying, I want this part of my life included. So we don’t necessarily have to worry that we are going to be reported to the licensing boards.

for being unethical. Actually, most reports from licensing boards come because people have not practiced healthy boundaries. So a lot of licensing complaints actually include boundary issues, not really anything about so much so. Belief issues is really way more about people crossing boundary lines.

Camille McDaniel (19:00.204)
When it comes to faith integration in your private practice, you want to document, you want to make sure there’s informed consent, you want to make sure you’re staying within your scope of practice and that you are using healthy professional boundaries in all that you do. Yeah, it’s definitely a true statement.

that faith integration done ethically is not a liability. It’s not, yeah. One of the other fears that I talked about sometimes, mental health professionals who are practicing with faith integration, with Christian integration, is that they are concerned with like public backlash or, you know, kind of like being canceled. And we do live in a culture where

People do get called out. They do, they get called out, they’re criticized, you know, they are dragged online for almost anything. my goodness, it is wild out here, okay? So many Christian counselors do worry about, you know, putting Christian counseling on their website. Will people attack me? Will I lose referrals?

you know, will colleagues think I’m unprofessional? All of that, you know, it comes into play and you really have to have a mindset shift when it comes to this. Now, I will tell you, yes, for some people you’re not going to be their person, but believe me, really, really, you’re not gonna be their person for a lot of different reasons. So it’s not just faith. I did have somebody kind of funny though.

There was someone who needed counseling. I was the person available to take a new client at that time. And they just didn’t feel comfortable because I was a counselor who also offered Christian counseling services because they were like, I cuss a lot and I might need to drop a curse. And I don’t really want there to be any offense.

Camille McDaniel (21:21.862)
in the session and even though the office manager was like, there won’t be any offense. I mean, this is going to be your session and Camille has no problem with however you need to communicate in your session. And she’s like, no, no, no, but I really, curse a lot. And so the person was just very uncomfortable with the idea that they would be having a session with somebody who had faith integration and faith.

kind of, you know, influence my worldview and all of that, that’s, you know, on our website. And that is going to be the experience that you have sometimes. And how can you address that? Well, you can address it in the written copy of your website to indicate that people are more than welcome to definitely come to their sessions and present their challenges in whatever way they need to and that your worldview is one of compassion.

It’s one of grace. It’s one of truth. You know, it’s one of ethics and professionalism and that it should not be anything that causes them or hinders them, but they are welcome to come and they will not be judged. And it’s true. I’m not judging my client. I’m just guiding myself, you know.

I’m not judging you if you want to curse. People have been cursing forever in a day. But I am going to be me. And so, yes, sometimes you will have where being faith integrated may not be a right fit for someone. But as I was saying before, there’s going to be other reasons why you are not a good fit for someone. You are not going to be the gender that they want. You are not going to be the culture or the race that they want.

you are not going to be the specialization that they want. They are going to not necessarily like the website. It just doesn’t hit them, you know? Or they are going to want to try someone else based on your look. You really actually don’t realize how many different things cause you to not be the right person when somebody is looking for counseling.

Camille McDaniel (23:49.112)
So I don’t want you to just allow fear to zone in on, it’s your faith, your faith is gonna cost you all kinds of clients. No, it’s not going to be the only thing that causes people to say, I don’t know if this is a right fit for me. Now, if you happen to be somebody who offers counseling services that are…

that the opportunity for someone to integrate their Christian faith is available, you know, then you may have to, again, word things on your website a little different, word things on your directory listings a little different than somebody whose, whose counseling practice is fully, Christian counseling. Like they don’t offer anything outside of that. So some of us offer Christian counseling, but we also can offer counseling.

in a way that still doesn’t cross our boundaries with the Lord that we serve, the Lord Christ, you know, and we can serve individuals who may not have our same faith. And then there’s some of us who are called to offer counseling just to the body of Christ. And so all of their counseling will absolutely have faith integration within the sessions explicitly. Okay. So it won’t be just implied. It will be actually

said, spoken about in every session. And so those two individuals will be marketing slightly differently because one person’s practice, what they are offering is Christian counseling all the time. They are offering that. That is part of the specialization that everybody is going to experience. And then there are some of us who are offering Christian counseling services.

to all of those who are wanting Christian counseling services. And we are also able to offer counseling to those who are not looking for Christian counseling services, but we are able to guide ourselves in ways that we are ethical, that we are professional, and that we still are aligned with our faith in Christ and his biblical truth. And that is actually a whole nother

Camille McDaniel (26:10.558)
I believe like segment in itself how to do that. But either way for today, just kind of focusing on the fact that you may need to market and craft your message a little bit, a little bit different, but you you’re not marketing to everyone. And that’s, that’s a big takeaway really. You’re not marketing to everyone. You are serving according to how the Lord has called you to serve.

And when you hide your faith, you know, the people who are searching for you, they can’t find you. And that’s not, that’s not going to be good. You know, the Bible does talk about the fact that we are a light to the world. And that’s in the book of Matthew chapter five. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. So, you know, our faith, again, it’s not a liability. It is a part of who we are. We do not put it on the shelf.

As in like telling the Lord just stay in the hallway and I’ll call you and I need you we don’t do that so we have to find the proper ethical professional ways in order to Bring all of us to the counseling session, you know our faith included and Serve people with respect and with transparency and with our ethics and with compassion and with care, you know

And for those people who are not a right fit because maybe we’re not a right fit because of our faith, or we’re not a right fit because of our gender, or we’re not a right fit because of our race or our culture and all that good stuff, or the fact that we only speak one particular language and they’re looking for a different language to be spoken in the counseling session, there are a number of reasons.

but focus on the people that you are supposed to serve. Don’t focus on all the people that you were never meant to serve anyway. I am in my practice, I am very clear on who I am supposed to be on this earth to serve. And I have a clinician in my practice who is a good friend of mine and has been for, gosh, I think we’ve been rocking and rolling for like almost 20 years now. I mean,

Camille McDaniel (28:25.28)
So, you know, she’s been a friend of mine for a long time, even before I even had a practice. And she is a rock star. And I’ve mentioned this in other episodes. She’s a rock star when it comes to working with trauma, specifically sexual trauma. Her, her skills, her talents, her gifts, her mind just bends in that way. She understands she really helps and does a phenomenal work in this world. And that is not my lane.

It’s not my lane. I know it’s not my lane. I don’t do my best work in that lane while I can do some of it. Over the years, I’ve definitely had to gain a lot more knowledge and understanding because that has just infiltrated our world in ways where it shows up for sure, even with individuals who are coming for something totally different. But I do still recognize when I need to refer to someone with a deeper specialization.

And I know that is not my lane. So there are going to be some things that are just not for you anyway. And you want to be able to definitely know the difference. Another fear that we have and we kind of talked about earlier is that I don’t know enough Bible. People are worried that they, this is actually a big one that people feel like I don’t really know the Bible or I

I’m not a pastor, I’m not a minister, you I didn’t go to seminary. And it’s like, okay, but that’s, let’s kind of talk around that. Let’s, or not talk around, no, we don’t want to talk around that. Let’s talk through that. Because something that kind of goes along with it that we have concerns about is like, what if a client asks for a scripture and I blank out? Can I tell you something?

Now, I don’t know if this will get better in the years that I have left on this earth, which prayerfully are many, many, many more decades to come, right? But I am really strong with being able to remember what the word of God says. And I am not as strong with knowing the actual scripture attached to it.

Camille McDaniel (30:53.726)
I know this about myself. And it’s kind of been like that. I want to say since I was really kind of a kid, I think that it is something I could work on and strengthen for sure. But I do not allow it to cripple me because I know it’s in the Bible. And I will then use tools in order to bring up the scripture. When I’m talking to my clients,

I can say the word says X, Y, and Z. And so we wanna be, you know, whatever, you know, mindful of, or you wanna be encouraged about, or hey, what you’re saying actually lines up with scripture. I’ve had a couple of sessions with that as well to say, did you gain that out of scripture? And a client who is walking with Christ but may not be as informed about their Bible quite yet will say,

You know, no, I don’t I didn’t read that in scripture and I’m like, well, the scriptures actually talk about exactly what you, you know, said was placed on your heart. And so I was like, you know, it sounds like Holy Spirit is guiding you. And then I’ll say, let me get that scripture. I said, I’m good with knowing what’s in the Bible and I’m not always as strong with exactly where to find it. So let me give you actual scripture for that so you can read it for yourself.

And I will then look it up online like i’ll just start typing real quick and get the scripture for them and keep it moving you don’t have to make a big deal about it it’s not that big of a deal really. The idea is that do you know the truth and and if you’re not as great with remembering all of the different scriptures some people are super phenomenal with that. And others have to.

go back to their reference, you know? So then that’s what I would say for you. Have a reference, you know, because you may think, my gosh, what if I blank out? You might, you might. There’s a lot of information you’re trying to hold all at once. And so have a reference resource that you have for yourself. There actually are…

Camille McDaniel (33:17.058)
different references online already made, but you can always make one for yourself for sure as it relates to what does the Bible say regarding anxiety, regarding depression, what does the Bible say regarding fear, regarding double-mindedness, what does the Bible say about God being a fortress, and all of the different scriptures that you feel would be applicable and then you will gain more over time.

just the way as you know as when we study about mental health in general we gain more information all the time. Sometimes people worry like my gosh what if I misinterpret something. Honestly misinterpretation of the scripture I really feel like is a very easy one to like mitigate because you can actually just make sure that whatever is on your reference sheet

just make sure whatever’s on your reference sheet has been thoroughly vetted. Make sure you understand the context in which it’s being used. know, sometimes something that we read in the Bible has like cultural context. Sometimes it’s, you know, based on what’s going on in that day and time. Sometimes it actually has some like legal context because it’s according to certain laws that were happening just depending on what parts of the Bible that you’re.

that you’re referring to. then some of it is just like it lasts, it doesn’t matter what generation you’re in, what year you’re in, it is just a life rule, a life direction or warning. So, you know, just make sure that you have proper context and there are, again, tools available to help us make sure that we can kind of cross reference scripture, passages and its meaning and its context. So,

That one, I think, is really kind of easy, even though sometimes it does come up for people as a concern that sometimes holds them back, you know, and you don’t have to worry about, again, we’re not preaching sermons here. We’re not pastors. We are counselors who are Christians and who are integrating Christ.

Camille McDaniel (35:36.974)
into the counseling experience for our clients. And so we don’t have to worry about preaching. We’re not trying to exergete the text or any of that. However, we are guides. We are going to be able to encourage. We are going to be able to integrate. We are going to be able to reflect.

and use it as a support. So we want to be able to look at it in that way. No one is expecting you to be like, you know, the top of the top as far as your, your whole ability to break down the text and all, and all of that. You’re not teaching it. You are using it in order to help people guide their lives, find answers, find strength, find comfort, find warnings, and you’re integrating that.

into treatment plans. So then you also want to remember in all of this that God meets us right where we are. If you know five scriptures really well, apply that. Do you not know? And I’m sure you do, right? But sometimes we get carried away within ourselves. We get so worried that we forget that we’re not showing up by ourselves.

We get so nervous that what if I mess up? What if I say the wrong thing? What if I don’t remember the scriptures? What if I, I, I, I, that we forget that the Holy Spirit is guiding us, that the Lord is with us, that as we continue to call on Him and invite Him into our space and coming to work with us and being with us every step of the way,

that he has the power to absolutely fill in gaps where we are not able to. So you also want to allow this whole process to allow you to lean into your faith more and grow stronger in it every single day. Absolutely, and make sure that you are making the time.

Camille McDaniel (37:52.704)
Make the time, whether it’s when you’re driving to work, whether it’s early in the morning, whether it’s late in the evening, or whether it’s on your lunch hour, make the time to continue growing, talking to the Father and listening to the Father. And He’ll guard your steps. He’ll guide your steps rather. Absolutely. So we can always ask for wisdom. The Word of God talks about that, the Book of James.

Chapter one and five if any of you lacks wisdom let him ask of God You know and and it goes on you know talking about how it will be given to you freely So you you want to make sure that you stand on word as well in order to help yourself Get stronger in this area that might cause worry concern fear Okay so then the other thing that sometimes comes up that we want to

kind of address when it’s talking about like, you know, concerns that we might have that cause us to shrink back, you know, fear of like mixing spiritual discernment with clinical training. And this is where Christian counselors might feel a little bit torn because it’s like, okay, can I trust what I sense the Holy Spirit is showing me? And how do I balance both? And you know, here’s what I would…

say that you can just like pick this up. This is what I want for you to know is that the Holy Spirit is not in conflict with your clinical training. Like, you know, unless there is something that you were specifically told that was super unethical, you know, but you know, as far as helping people heal in a variety of ways, the Holy Spirit, the Lord wants you to help people heal. That’s why he gave you the gifts that he gave you.

He gave you the gift of wisdom in the first place, right? And so the clinical training that you’re getting is giving you language. It’s giving you the structure. It’s giving you assessments. It’s giving you interventions, treatment plans and ways of documenting, you know, the Holy Spirit jumps into all of that. And he gives you the discernment and the insight.

Camille McDaniel (40:17.932)
within the context of your training and he’ll give you direction, right? And he also for sure gives you as you lean in compassion and the right time to say things and how to say things. He is like, you your filter. He’ll give you revelation of the root of an issue that you can’t even see.

that hasn’t even been maybe brought up in counseling. So remember, again, the spiritual side of our lives transcends space and time. So the Lord has been everywhere, the beginning and the end. And so that’s where Holy Spirit can tell you about things that have not popped up in the session already.

can give you direction and guidance for yourself, keeping you in line, checking you to keep those healthy boundaries and keep all of the professionalism and ethics. We also have obviously ethical codes that we are very aware of. So we want to also just make sure that we understand that being able to practice as clinicians is not

offense against the Lord and that we can have the two together so when we are kind of like You know am I able to to lean on the Holy Spirit because how do I quantify that? Because how do I actually put that into? Anything that I can explain to colleagues. I think that’s what really causes us some some concern to just be like the Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit told me about this or that. But there is research about how even someone’s faith can help them heal faster than someone who may have no faith at all. that, in that way also, you may want to check out what research actually does say about acknowledging someone’s faith and using their faith.

Camille McDaniel (42:42.348)
and how everything from the medical community to the mental health community has been able to have research that shows there has been healing, more positive healing when people had a faith base. And that even working in mental health, integrating someone’s faith has allowed them to be able to move through certain challenges, obstacles better.

than those who may not have even had any faith base. So it is very powerful and it is even research based. And remember the Lord created everything. So it’s really, that’s where it’s really awesome to get into. There are some of us who actually study like the science and how science

continues to prove what God had already said, has already written about and how science comes along and then proves what God’s truth has, that’s already been announced. And it’s really awesome. I will have some resources even to some of that in the show notes, because that’s really cool. Or on the website. I won’t necessarily put it like right.

within the show notes, but I’ll have it on the website resources so you can see what I’m talking about because sometimes another concern is that, well, is this, is this really, you know, like research based? Is it really solid? And it’s like, actually it is. Yeah, it is very much so. Something else that comes up for people is like a fear of serving clients who are not Christians.

So it’s like, okay, how do I work around, how do I work with, how do I serve people who are not Christians if I want to show up and share the fact that my counseling services or I as a professional am influenced by my worldview as a Christian and that my counseling services can include Christian integration. So.

Camille McDaniel (45:01.56)
You know, this is where like the episode, the prior episode, episode two, or many episodes ago, episode two had addressed this kind of generally. And, and I want to just dive into it a little bit deeper here, because it is a concern that a lot of Christian counselors have. Their fears are typically like, what if I say something biblical and they react badly? Or what if their worldview conflicts with my worldview? You know, so.

Here’s just like some professional truth to kind of think about. You can serve people of any belief system. What you cannot do is hide who you are ethically. It is really, it’s not beneficial for you to hide who you are. So when clients actually know,

who you are, what influences you, how you actually move forward in your treatment, when they know your boundaries and all of that, then that gives the client the ability, informed consent, to decide if you’re a good fit for them. Transparency protects you and clarity will serve you

and the potential client. And guess what? Many non-Christian clients still appreciate Christian counselors because of your grounding or your peace or they feel you’re compassionate. Excuse me, you’re compassionate or you have integrity. you don’t want to have fear that

That is something that is another reason why you should not move forward in integrating your faith. And sometimes people say, well, like, you know, what if somebody not only doesn’t have my same belief system, but what if the way that they live their life is in stark contrast to my belief system? Then one of the things that I’m going to really, really ask that you mark down, write down, think about journal,

Camille McDaniel (47:26.314)
you know, prey on is how did our Lord and Savior talk to deal with individuals who were, it was basically the same situation, who were not, they were not followers of him. Their lives or their choices or their behaviors did not reflect what he was teaching to the multitude. And how did he deal with them?

with compassion, with good timing, with truth, but truth in love.

And an example of that might be anything. Somebody might not be living the way you’re living. Their choices may not be reflecting what the Lord has outlined for us. And so what might that look like in practice when they are sharing with you some of the things that they are doing in their life, that they’re involved in, some of their thought process.

Again, as individuals who are coming influenced by their faith in Christ, one of the things that you’re going to do is you’re going to listen for more understanding. So as the person is coming to you and they are talking and sharing their life and know it may not line up with what the Bible is asking of us, and maybe that person is not even a believer in Christ.

Maybe they are, but let’s get back to the what if the person is non-Christian, right? And either way, first you are listening, gaining understanding. What is it that they’re sharing? Okay. What is it that they’re dealing with? Okay. They know how you are practicing. They know what influences your world, right? Because you’ve already used informed consent. And now what you are going to do is you are going to use your listening,

Camille McDaniel (49:36.514)
your silence, you’re going to ask questions for clarity. You’re going to make sure that the client is safe in what they’re doing. So maybe processing with them things that may not seem safe in what they are sharing. And then you might go in further and say, but Camille, what if it is something that the Bible tells us is a not right living at all? It’s like, okay, all right. So then how do we move forward with that again?

They’re not coming to us asking, am I living right? They’re not asking that, right? And that is why it is very important for you to be transparent about how you operate because you cannot be really like trying to blend in and trying to be everything that everybody wants you to be because then you will have a problem setting healthy boundaries in your counseling sessions.

because you will have not have been honest in the beginning. Now, what if you are trying to pivot? Don’t worry, I haven’t forgotten that we are going over an example. I’m gonna come back to it. What if you have not necessarily operated this way and you’re wanting to pivot? Then you will slowly start to pivot with certain steps.

in the way that you advertise and start bringing in additional clients to your practice. You will start to slowly change your website wording. You may even have clients that you need to inform in compassionate, caring ways to let them know that you are walking more in your calling and following more integration of faith.

into your business and this is what it means as far as treatment as far as ethics and professionalism because nobody is going to know if you just say you are moving forward with Christian integration no one knows what that really means so you would need to outline it and then you will give people an opportunity to stay or

Camille McDaniel (52:00.057)
to move on and process it in the session or to move on and seek additional counseling somewhere else. And you wanna make yourself available to referrals, to processing, to doing things ethically so you are not abandoning your client.

Going back to what if they describe something to you that is absolutely, you know, outside of the will of God and for you, if you were to in any way encourage them or anything like that, that would kind of cause you to come into conflict with your own faith beliefs. Then that’s where you want to again be compassionate. You want to hear what they’re saying. You want to find the root issue.

Sometimes a person may come to you and they’re talking about something that you know. Well, I can’t necessarily, you know, stand in agreement. Like I can’t encourage the person to continue that. But what I see is a deeper issue. What I may see is that this person doesn’t have healthy boundaries for themselves. What I might see in this person is that they have gotten into a situation that is very reflective.

of a traumatic background that they came from. And they are now perpetuating certain cycles because they have been wounded in certain ways. So I’m gonna look at the root. And if I feel like there is a different specialty that can help them in the other area that they may be talking about, I’m gonna be transparent about that. I’m going to say, I can absolutely see these patterns are showing up.

in this particular situation that you are explaining to me. And I think that they’re coming from this place. I think this is the root of what is going on. Can we talk about that for a minute? And then if there’s another area of their life that they would like to focus on, then you say, as it relates to this, I believe that my skillset is not gonna serve you as well, but I have a colleague.

Camille McDaniel (54:14.146)
that I can give you referrals to if you are wanting to focus more deeply on that area. But I know that I can help you work on this particular area because based on what you just shared with me, I absolutely see patterns and I see things that we can work on to help you heal from. Again, we are not jumping to, well, let me give you a referral. People feel dismissed.

People feel like, gosh, that’s it? Guess I didn’t mean much to you. We want to have compassion, the same compassion that our Lord and Savior used with a multitude of people who he came across every single day that he walked this earth. And so that’s what I would encourage people to think about. Think about where you can help people. Think about listening, gaining more understanding, thinking about compassion in your understanding of where they’re coming from.

and what they’re sharing with you, thinking about the root causes outside of the part that you might not be able to align with, because if you did, it’s going to cause you to come in conflict with the God that you serve, right? With the Lord Jesus Christ. But you see a root issue because most of our, most of our stuff, our challenges have a root. There’s usually a root and you see that root issue and you start helping them better understand what you see. And then in that with compassion, you say,

As it relates to this part though over here, I have a good referral I want you to consider. As it relates to this part though, I can see a root issue that we could possibly work on. And then you allow the client to decide. And if in that, because some people might say, well, that’s going to be offensive. Your client’s definitely still going to feel like they’re being moved on. But guess what? You can process that. If you can pay attention, we’re

We’re mental health professionals, right? We see the cues. We see the nonverbal body language and also we can hear the the verbal body language. you know, and so we might pick that up and say, when I said that I noticed a shift. Tell me what’s going on. What happened right now? Something didn’t seem, I didn’t feel, I didn’t feel well about that shift. Is there anything that you need to share with me right now? Is there anything that you need to process?

Camille McDaniel (56:37.324)
We need to be open to that. And if a person says, well, yeah, well, yeah, because I mean, you kind of are like giving me a referral for this area of my life. And, but I thought that you were going to be able to help me with all of it. And then that’s where you go back to letting them know where are your specializations and how are your specializations used and how are you using your faith in all of this to kind of help you to create treatment plans.

for clients and how is your specialization or specializations, how does that set you up to be able to help that person in this area and letting them know the framework that I use, I don’t believe will do you a service. So I wanted to be very ethical. And so ethically, I have a colleague that I know of who would be better in this area.

But as far as your root issue, I can absolutely address your root issue right there.

And then again, you can continue to process. And if that is okay with the client, you move forward. And if that is not okay with the client, you check in. Well, how would they like to move forward? This is all about relationship. It’s all about relationship. And this is about relationship and in within the counseling setting and making sure that you do things ethically right in an order.

so that you are not hurting your clients and you are not crossing your faith. Okay? So again, we are going to kind of move forward from that concern and kind of, you know, I wanna, I just want to kind of close our time for this podcast with you.

Camille McDaniel (58:40.746)
thinking on the fact that you can have knowledge, you can have training, you can have the Bible and resources and ethical clarity, you know, you you’re doing everything to get supervision and consultation and you’re documenting and you have community all around you, but if you have fear and if fear is driving the vehicle that you are sitting in then you’re

You’re not going to be able to go where the Lord is leading you. You’re just not. Faith integration, it requires you to stand firm and be clear and have courage, not perfection. This is not about perfection at all. This is not about, again, I just really can’t emphasize enough. This is not about being a biblical scholar and knowing, you know, also every single ethical code word for word. That’s why these

Things are in print, you know, for you, for you to be able to reference and go back to. This is about courage, right? The book of Joshua, chapter one talks about be strong and of good courage. It’s verse nine. And it also talks about the fact that the Lord, your God is with you wherever you go.

So, you know, courage is not necessarily like the total absence of fear, but it is definitely obedience. Even when fear decides to stand in the doorway, you are more equipped to walk this path than you think. You are more prepared than you feel, and you are absolutely more capable than you’re giving yourself credit for.

So I want for you to move forward with all of this and ask, again, any questions you may have as always, if you really resonate with this or you feel like someone else will, please share, please like. It really actually helps for Christ in Private Practice’s podcast to then be mentioned to other individuals who are searching Spotify or searching YouTube or Apple, wherever you’re listening.

Camille McDaniel (01:01:08.446)
It kind of will show up in their recommendations. So this helps for other people who are searching and just not sure to be able to find the right kind of information that might encourage them and empower them and just kind of set them on a path to moving forward in the way that the father is calling them to move forward. So I want to thank you so much again for your participation, just following me along.

for the journey and for sharing this podcast with others that you know. I hope that all of this has been informative and encouraging. And I look forward to talking to you next week with another podcast episode. But until then, God bless you.