Treating Eating Disorders as a Christian Counselor: What You Need to Know

Camille McDaniel (00:28)
Welcome back to another episode of Christ in Private Practice. It’s so nice to have you join and if you’re new, welcome. I hope you stay for the ride. As you can see today, we have a guest. It’s always enjoyable to have an opportunity to talk to other mental health professionals. And so today we’re going to be talking to Chantia Sturman, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist.

because we are going to be talking on the topic of treating eating disorders as a Christian counselor and what you would need to know if that is something that you desire to do or if it even pops up in your practice. So first, let me share a little bit about Chantia and then we will go from there.

As I said before, she’s a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she specializes in eating disorders and body image and the integration of faith and mental health. And she helps her clients move beyond shame and control and perfectionism by addressing the deeper roots of disordered eating through both clinical care and thoughtful approach to faith. And Chantia is passionate about guiding others.

toward lasting healing, freedom, and a restored relationship with their body so that they can live more fully and pursue their God given purpose, which is perfect for our channel and how we are desiring to move forward in helping the clients that come to our practice. So hello, Chantia Thank you for joining me.

Chantia Sturman (02:02)
Hi, thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Camille McDaniel (02:04)
All right, well then we’re going to jump right on in and you help us since this is your specialization. ⁓ Absolutely. tell us, ⁓ help us to understand, you know, what eating disorders are. I know that many of us have heard of eating disorders, but not all of us actually work with it. And we may have a very surface level understanding. So could you start there from a clinical perspective, letting us know what is an eating disorder?

Chantia Sturman (02:35)
So I’d say just the most basic explanation of it is ⁓ where you see impairment in a person’s eating, you might find that some people have body dissatisfaction that comes along with it. ⁓ Others that might not be the case, they may just have difficulties when it comes to food or…

⁓ just navigating food preferences ⁓ and it can just lead to whether that’s health complications or just impairment in social functioning, work functioning, different avoidance ⁓ behaviors. So really just food behaviors that can cause impairment in a person’s life.

Camille McDaniel (03:16)
thank you. And so when you’re working with somebody who struggles with an eating disorder, ⁓ tell us about like some things that maybe we don’t understand. Maybe even something we minimize. Because I remember it’s coming up in my mind very clearly, a very sweet person that I used to work with. I am not a specialist in disordered eating, but I was seeing them for something else and they had a team that worked with them regarding their eating disorder. But I

learned of some things that I didn’t even, I don’t, I didn’t think about that went along with eating disorders in ways that people hit their eating disorder. Either way, ⁓ can you kind of help us understand a little bit about, you know, what are we missing? What are some early signs, ⁓ especially with high functioning clients who present like they may have an eating disorder?

Chantia Sturman (03:55)
you

All

That’s a really good question. think a really big thing that I’ve learned over the years is, and it may seem obvious to some people who are listening, it’s not all about vanity. ⁓ Sometimes for some clients that may be there, most of the people I meet, that’s not it at the heart of it. And you can learn a lot by looking at some of the neurobiology studies and just how some individuals with eating disorders, the way that their brain processes food, some might…

experience anxiety in the presence of food just immediately, where if you don’t have an eating disorder, food can cause a lot of ⁓ calm. know, when you’re hungry, you eat and you feel you can think straight and you can move on to the next thing you need to do. If a person has anorexia, for example, they may experience a of anxiety after eating. So it’s not just ⁓

I want to be thin or I want to look better for other people, there can be some things happening ⁓ in the brain that are also impacting. that’s been really helpful for me to understand from a compassion standpoint when working with individuals with eating disorders. So that’s something I think is really helpful to know from the front end.

Camille McDaniel (05:20)
Okay.

Again, so like you said, it’s not always just about the look. It’s not always because someone’s trying to become a certain size for like popularity reasons, ⁓ culture, things like that. But there may be other things deeply rooted that cause somebody to choose food ⁓ to deal with or to have an aversion to food. Like,

Chantia Sturman (05:25)
now.

Right.

Of course.

Camille McDaniel (05:43)
What are some of the things that you’re seeing in your practice that are bringing people to a place where an eating disorder is the result? What could even be some things that maybe lead down that path of an eating disorder?

Chantia Sturman (05:55)
Mm-hmm. Trauma, abuse, and that’s not always the case, but ⁓ trauma, abuse, I think a lot of people I’ve met ⁓ are just these incredible people who have a lot to say but have been kind of shrunken by life circumstance or ⁓ bullying. I mean, it can be things that…

on the surface for other people might seem very simple ⁓ or for other people might seem extremely traumatic like death in the family, different things of that nature. so ⁓ everyone is so different, but a lot of times there is something, there’s something there, even if it’s not a specific event, it may be just the way that they’ve learned to see themselves or the world just based on a lot of different factors. And so… ⁓

Camille McDaniel (06:39)
Yeah.

Chantia Sturman (06:41)
Yeah, there’s a lot of things that I think could be at the root of it.

Camille McDaniel (06:47)
There’s not really one way that it looks. There’s not just one textbook presentation that then leads you to an eating disorder, which is why the mind is so fascinating. So it’s just all in how you’re perceiving your experiences in this life. And some of those experiences may cause people to use food or have an aversion to food ⁓ in one way or another. I’m learning. I’m learning as I’m talking to you. ⁓

Chantia Sturman (06:56)
No. It is.

This

Good.

Camille McDaniel (07:15)
So when a client does come and they have body image concerns, what does that even look like? How do you evaluate whether you’re looking at disordered eating or if you’re just kind of looking at overall dissatisfaction, like they just need to move their body more, know, or much more.

Chantia Sturman (07:25)
Mm-hmm.

That’s a really good question. Usually I’m looking at what’s the level of distress because ⁓ I think especially being a mom, know, you go into circles and postpartum and moms and that’s just not mom, not just mom, but you can hear a lot of mom circles where gosh, I wish I had my body this way or I wish I did this or but for a lot of them, it’s not causing a lot of distress. You know, they’re still able to parent and go to work if they work or

have relationship, they’re not voiding, they’re not changing the way that they eat in a way that’s leading to physical challenges potentially or that can potentially lead to physical challenges. So for me, I’m looking at the level of distress it’s causing and then the behavioral implications of that and maybe even physical.

Camille McDaniel (08:18)
Okay, that’s that’s a good one. Cause yeah, it’s funny when you were talking about like the moms, even though like you said, it could be, it could be other people too. My, my youngest still comments on squishy parts and I’m like, yeah. But at the same time, I’m like, that’s life, you know, and then I, whereas ⁓ that might be the case for everyone. And also like you just kind of shared with us a little bit before it may be much deeper.

Chantia Sturman (08:29)
Yes, it’s so common. Yeah, I’m like, what’s there?

Not exactly. That’s the difference.

Camille McDaniel (08:47)
then just I want to fit in with the culture around me. It may have nothing to do with that at all and definitely could be something more severe that they’ve experienced in life. Okay.

Chantia Sturman (08:59)
Yep, and I will say to what you were saying culture does it does and can play a role and so ⁓ It can be a factor even if it’s not the you know person that’s not their everyday drive is to look a certain way ⁓ culture still does play a huge role just in terms of like the idealized body and ⁓ And so it’s still even if that’s not the forefront of someone’s mind. It still does inform, you know, the body should look like

Camille McDaniel (09:26)
Yes. Okay, these conversations are bringing up all kinds of memories because I’m thinking about so as you say that, that does remind me of just some of the things that some of my friends experience. my goodness, when we’re back in high school, things, know, surrounding size and surrounding certain things that we wanted to present ⁓ and what you had to do in order to get to that size or present in that way to kind of be a part of what everyone else was doing because you didn’t want to stand out.

Chantia Sturman (09:40)
really.

Okay.

Camille McDaniel (09:56)
Okay.

Chantia Sturman (09:58)
And

two, something I hear a lot, especially with the kids that I’ve worked with and teenagers, I’ll hear a lot of times mom is the one coming in with the child. I have had some great deaths too, but a lot of times it’s mom and she’ll say, well, the doctor said that my, you know, at the time five-year-old was obese. And so I tried to put them on a diet or the doctor said I needed to put them on a diet. And that can really spiral because then I’ll hear the kids say, I remember sitting in the doctor’s office.

at five or usually it’s a little later when the kid remembers at eight or 10 being told that I’m too fat and that I need to start exercising. And some kids are just in larger bodies as kids and then they start to learn to move and not have any issues with ⁓ negative thoughts about their bodies and then it just works itself out and it’s fine. ⁓ But when you start to hear from a very early age that something’s wrong with my body, it can present issues that may not have been there even though doctors are

are doing their best and mean well in saying it. can just create for the right situation, it can create some problems.

Camille McDaniel (11:07)
that’s a good one because it then plants seeds early that kids and teens don’t know how to deal with. So it’s not like they’re always saying, you know, I’ve come up with this great plan of action to have this amount of protein and this amount of veg and this amount of, you know, but instead it’s usually, I’m guessing, I don’t want to speak for you as the specialist, but you know, I would think that a lot of that population is just going to the quick fix. So they’re not necessarily trying to get there.

Chantia Sturman (11:10)
Yes, it does.

Camille McDaniel (11:35)
They don’t even always know to get there a hell of way. They just know, gotta get there.

Chantia Sturman (11:37)
Exactly. Yeah,

there’s pressure and I’m just trying to do the right thing for my kid, you know.

Camille McDaniel (11:45)
So then what, let me ask you this, what are some common mistakes that you’ve seen like when assessing the seriousness of an disorder?

Chantia Sturman (11:56)
Yeah, common mistakes like as a clinician. Yeah, I would say and I will say from personal experience before I had training, I remember working with my first ⁓ eating disorder client who had bulimia. ⁓ It was not, ⁓ I didn’t understand.

Camille McDaniel (11:58)
Yes, yeah.

Chantia Sturman (12:15)
at what point this person would need a higher level of care, just because you’re like, I want to help, know, and there’s no one else who’s helping this person, I want to help. And so not understanding like what it

constitutes outpatient, what’s inpatient, what’s PHP, what’s IOP. There’s different levels of care thankfully, but it’s really important to know what level can a person be helped best. And it could be easy to feel like, okay, but I love this client, we’re working on these things over here, so let me just incorporate some body image things, you know, a little bit and then work on the trauma. But not understanding that a lot of times with these clients, we need to work on stabilizing food and

Camille McDaniel (12:55)
Yeah, I this.

Chantia Sturman (12:56)
And then we can move on to the other things because if they’re not eating their brain isn’t going to be processing trauma work It’s just our brains need the fuel. So I made that mistake early on ⁓

Camille McDaniel (13:03)
Okay. Yes. That’s good.

And thank you for sharing that because I think that’s really valuable for us to take into account because we do care a lot about our clients and we may feel like that care can translate to us working through it and not knowing really how it presents, you know, because there are a lot of different ways that you can have disordered eating. Like earlier you talked about

anorexia. Right now you’re talking about an experience early on in your career with bulimia. ⁓ You know, I remember having a client that, like I shared earlier, was getting help with a team for their eating disorder, but at one point had to go inpatient. So you talk about IOPs. Those are intensive outpatient programs or PHPs, partial hospitalization programs. And then there are like inpatient programs where the person’s

Chantia Sturman (13:59)
Residentials.

Camille McDaniel (14:01)
Residentials. Yeah, and they were saying how they had to go to the bathroom with the door cracked and I was like, oh really Why is that? So again, very very new to me and they were like because I’d start exercising if they if they allowed me to close the door and I was like, oh Wow, okay. Whoa. So, you know like understanding the nuances of the way some of the

Chantia Sturman (14:13)
Soon.

Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (14:30)
the eating disorders really impact people allows us to not say, well, you know, like you said, you know, I’m so glad you shared that because it’s like, don’t take these lightly. ⁓ know, so, okay, so then as professionals, how do you even approach collaboration? What does collaboration look like with other professionals? Because that was something else that I learned along the way. ⁓

I didn’t realize how extensive some of the teams are. For some individuals who are struggling with disordered eating, how do you approach collaboration?

Chantia Sturman (15:01)
Mm-hmm.

collaboration. is the best thing because if I have a client, I mean a lot of times as clinicians we can’t, we don’t see the full picture. It’s really hard to do on your own and so I love the dietitians I work with, the doctors, the psychiatrists.

We’ll talk some some are a little more ⁓ communicative than others just I think based on schedule, but I love being able to get on the phone and say, hey, this is what I’m seeing. What are you seeing? Do we feel like this is still appropriate at outpatient? Do we need to step them up? ⁓ I’ve had clients where we’ll really work with them to say, hey, look, we want to keep you at outpatient, but we need to see X, Y, and Z. We need to see you really hitting your meal plan with the dietitian. Otherwise, this isn’t safe for you. And so it even helps with with motivating the

client and helping them understand the severity of their own disorder because a lot of times with eating disorders you see the minimization and again for what I’ve seen it goes back to the ⁓ well is it really that bad do I do people they really deserve this much help and support around me so a lot of the minimization and so helping them understand yes it is this severe and yes you do deserve a team of people and yes we are going to let you know that we’re not going to undertreat you

it’s not ethical or right, it’s just not right, but I love working in collaboration with other providers.

Camille McDaniel (16:28)
that’s awesome. And I think that makes us sharper, you know, ⁓ because like you said, some people are getting some one view, another person is getting another view. If you all can kind of come together, then you can best support the client and help them to move toward healing. Okay, nice. So what about when you, I’m sorry.

Chantia Sturman (16:33)
It does.

Yeah.

Oh, you’re okay. I was going to say even to know the right questions to ask, because I can think of working with a psychiatrist. One in particular where she will share information where I think because my mind isn’t working from a medical standpoint in that way, I didn’t ask that question, but she got the answer. And so now I can incorporate that in my work with this client because I wasn’t thinking about asking that very specific question that she needed to prescribe medication. So it’s really helpful.

Camille McDaniel (17:16)
Yeah,

think that that also then is, ⁓ I guess, important to know,

How is it presenting? if you know this is not an area of specialization for me, which is why I think also this segment, this podcast episode is really important to hear all that says, hey, this is more than just we’ll talk through it. Like, knees, yeah, okay. So then what about your clients who might come to you and they actually have a Christian faith base? So for those of them.

for those who come to you and they’re believers, how are you integrating faith into the treatment process? you know, obviously without forcing it, these are clients who want it, but how are you integrating that?

Chantia Sturman (18:02)
Yeah, with any client who comes to me for Christian counseling, I always like to see where they at in their faith. Because a lot of times, especially if have a client who’s been struggling for a long time, a lot of times that comes with the, there’s some anger toward God or there’s why, why hasn’t praying helps this? Like, why can’t I just believe more? And so you see a lot of the shame pop up in that way. And so I like to see where they at ⁓ faith wise, so that I’m not 10 steps behind them or

10 steps ahead of them. So I like to assess and I just ask them and I say that I just say I want to be respectful for where you’re at in your journey. so ⁓ help me understand like where you’re at and where you want to be so I can walk alongside you and not hold you back or get ahead and feel like you’re being pushed to do something that you’re not ready to do.

Camille McDaniel (18:50)
Okay, so again like client-led, know, and they can they can share as much about that but they want incorporate it now have you had an opportunity to Either witness or even hear about like ways that faith has been used and it’s not been helpful as far as disorder population and like if so Can you tell us a little bit about that so that we can avoid steps?

Chantia Sturman (18:54)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm, yes. I’ll start,

so we can avoid it, yes. I’ll start by saying that I see the heart in people and I see the good intention. And then I can see just from all the stories and things I’ve heard where it can be harmful. one thing I see all the time, and this comes from pastors, they’ll be honest. If you don’t have an eating disorder, if you don’t work with the eating disorder population, you may not catch it, but.

A lot of times pastors will talk about

how they are on a diet or how like they, I had so much food this weekend. I just, I need to go work out. And I notice it because I’ll look at the pastor and they’re generally in a ⁓ medium sized body. And then I look in the congregation and I wonder for people who are really struggling with their bodies, the comparison, if this pastor I really respect is saying that they need to lose weight and calm down at their food, what is that saying to me? And obviously the pastor’s not, they’re not intending to make that

connection. ⁓ But even as clinicians, just some of the things we might say about food, subtle things can be ⁓ misinterpreted or just there could be messages that we don’t mean to be saying. Something to be aware of.

Camille McDaniel (20:32)
Okay, this yes

Okay, I’ve even I’ve heard and not just for any particular Diagnosis, but I have heard like, know about individuals saying, you know, your your faith would need to be stronger, you know, you know if you really Yeah, and that yeah and that kind of

Erases the fact that there are some things that do not go very easily, you know And and there are some things that yes, the lord can absolutely help us with any and everything he is the lord but But there are still things in this broken world that do happen all the time and sometimes Just not having enough faith is not is not the answer. Yeah

Chantia Sturman (21:01)
Mm-hmm.

And

I love explaining that to clients too because you do see a lot of shame with eating disorders and this is my fault and obviously I’m doing something wrong so there’s not for many it’s not an issue of accountability that’s not or self-control it’s not or not caring for most of them that almost like they take it on too much and so I like to explain to them like God can heal you in an instant and sometimes just like with other things in life it’s it’s a process and there’s something

working in you for whatever reason and so it’s not you’re lazy and you’re not working hard enough and you need to spend more time in the work we do need to spend more time in work and sometimes the healing comes in the journey and not just in the instant and it’s amazing what happens in the instant but we don’t always get that we don’t be nice but

Camille McDaniel (22:01)
Yeah, you don’t always get that. ⁓

And in all fairness, in his infinite wisdom, sometimes the longer route has been beneficial depending on what we’re experiencing in life. May not be the most comfortable for sure. Yeah, and so, Yes. Now for you and your practice, like how do you even begin the process of helping your clients shift their view from like, you know,

Chantia Sturman (22:16)
Not at all. Yeah, but it’s true.

Camille McDaniel (22:30)
the body being something after the control or criticize to something that kind of aligns more with the way the Lord sees us, know, made. ⁓

Chantia Sturman (22:33)
Mm-hmm.

Of course. Yeah,

so the beginning part I think is meeting them where they’re at and helping them see that you understand and then moving them to. ⁓

purpose and freedom. Not ignoring the body, but almost helping them see that your body is part of accomplishing your purpose. If we’re moving in ways that make it feel good and help us to think properly and take care of ⁓ the people that we’re called the steward and the jobs and all the things, it helps us with our purpose. Our body is a vessel, but it’s not the

and I’ll be all. And think the important part is that first, helping them understand that you hear them. Because if you say that too soon, it can feel like, you just don’t get it. You just don’t understand. It can feel invalidating. And so I think as the relationship builds and it’s like, no, I hear you. I hear what the struggle is. And that is incredibly difficult. And so what do we do with that?

and then helping them move toward versus like, but your body’s great. Let’s focus on what God, there’s a bigger purpose for you. That’s very true. But when people are growing through something, it’s like, I just want you to see me first. And then we can talk.

Camille McDaniel (23:58)
that’s important because we then don’t want to get in that loop they term it spiritual bypassing so it’s like you just Throw all of the wonderful joyful like, you know things at them and then it’s like and that’s supposed to make it all gone right now, so When in actuality I’ve I’ve heard now correct me if I’m wrong because I really I don’t know but I’ve heard that like sometimes ⁓ the journey to overcoming an eating disorder

Chantia Sturman (24:13)
Yes, I’m going to fix it. Yeah, let’s fix it for you. Yeah.

Camille McDaniel (24:27)
it can be a little lengthy, like, because there can be quite a few setbacks. Is that accurate?

Chantia Sturman (24:33)
Very accurate, yes. I’ve had clients where it’s…

relatively short, you know, maybe a few months, which is incredible. ⁓ But I have clients who I’ve seen for years. so, but I also help them understand this isn’t a ⁓ shortcoming of yours. Like that’s not why you’ve been a treatment for longer than this person over here. It’s just sometimes there’s so many different layers, especially if there’s trauma. And so it’s like you’re working on the food and stabilization, and then we’re working on, you know, whatever behaviors, and then we’re working, it’s, you we’re kind of going down. And then there’s a big

Camille McDaniel (24:40)
huh.

Yeah.

Chantia Sturman (25:07)
Life change. It’s like, okay, so let’s go back to stabilizing food. So sometimes it’s just We’re just trying to tackle one thing at a time. So it’s not too much. It’s not over

Camille McDaniel (25:16)
Okay, ⁓

this helps to paint the picture though of what the journey can look like when you’re walking with somebody as they’re trying to overcome.

an eating disorder and why it’s so important that if you suspect that somebody is struggling with an eating disorder that you give them the referrals that they’re needing. That’s not your area because there are some nuances that may for those of us who aren’t specializing in that area some things that look just regular but ⁓ or look just like they’re handling it fine or I think we’ve got that but someone just like you said the psychiatrist had a different view and just

ask this one question this way and it brought about all this information you may also ask a question a certain way that those of us who don’t have that experience in this in this area wouldn’t ask and it just like oh okay I didn’t know all of that you know wow

Chantia Sturman (26:13)
Mm-hmm. That picks up a lot. Yeah.

Camille McDaniel (26:16)
So with your clients, generally, how do you even help them to start loosen that grip of control that the eating disorder has over them? mean, not that you can tell us the whole thing right now, but I mean, what does that journey even look like? Because you mentioned already, sometimes it’s processing some trauma, sometimes it’s like stabilization is something else you’ve talked about. Where does it all start then?

Chantia Sturman (26:27)
Thank you.

Mm hmm. Yeah. So once we’re, you know, once their food is good, or once they’re, you know, they’ve kind of gotten the behaviors under wraps, then we can move on to trauma. I like to help.

I like to understand like how are they seeing the world and what is that desire for control coming from? Because we all, I we all, I shouldn’t say we all, most of us, myself included, like some sort of control, know, whatever that looks like in our lives. so understanding where does that come from? Because we’re not all the same. So that doesn’t come from the same exact place. And so getting down to the root of what does this mean to you? What does it mean to you to have, you know, if we’re talking about a person who does have the desire to have a certain type of body or who only

wants to eat health foods all the time. What does that mean for you? What does that say about you? What does that say about the world around you? So understanding that and then helping them understand, is that helpful? Like is it, and not in judgmental way, but in a like truly, is it helpful for you?

Is it causing issues? And if it is, what are some other ways that we can achieve that same purpose that you’re trying to find, but in a way that’s actually going to last and give you something that is more like free, gives you freedom from the take away from your life.

Camille McDaniel (27:55)
Okay.

So then if you happen to have a client who is struggling with some of that control or not being able to let go because of their belief systems, their faith, maybe holding on to it in ways that are not healthy, like, know, ⁓ how do you kind of help them address that to move forward? Like, do you start to add more information on how they might be holding on to it in improper ways or do you?

Chantia Sturman (28:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s tough.

Camille McDaniel (28:25)
Do you do something different? How does that even work when faith is

Chantia Sturman (28:28)
⁓

It can get tough and are you talking about like when people like the idea of like I need to do more I need to be more faithful I need to is that what you’re referring to?

Camille McDaniel (28:38)
Yep, like I’m not

faithful enough or I’ve heard this as it relates to other things or this is my punishment because certain things that happened and so the Lord is punishing me and you know, he didn’t he probably doesn’t want me to get relief. He doesn’t want me to feel better, you know, because I’ve earned this and and this is probably just my punishment for that that or whatever. Yeah, so ways enough faith or

Chantia Sturman (28:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, good question.

Camille McDaniel (29:05)
Like I’m being punished and then it’s like, okay, how do you, how do you kind of help them out? That’s a lot of misinformation there.

Chantia Sturman (29:12)
Yes, I always like to give psycho education because most people can’t just make themselves have an eating disorder. I mean, I would say all you can’t you can’t just like will yourself into doing it. ⁓ And so I like to give education on just like where eating disorders come from just the different ⁓ the different ways that they can come about obviously everyone’s different but I like

for people to understand this isn’t just a spiritual thing. is there’s biology, there’s environment, there’s the way that trauma shows up in our lives. And so I like to help people understand that it’s not just spiritual. ⁓ And then that can kind of help them feel, OK, well, maybe there’s a little bit more going on. then.

challenge them. Okay, if you’re feeling like God’s help me understand your view of God then if if you feel that you serve a God who punishes you for X, Y, and Z like just help me understand your view of God and your faith and and is that reflective of what you learned? Is that reflective of like where does that come from? Because most people will tell me like well actually that’s not.

That’s not the God I believe I serve, but for some reason I feel like that’s how he relates to me. So then, then you can just start asking questions and helping them just kind of think through it a little bit more.

Camille McDaniel (30:34)
⁓ good. That’s yeah, I think you’re giving you’re you’re definitely giving a good framework for ⁓ How we can first make sure that we are understanding what it means to them First of all, so we don’t want to assume and that’s that’s you know a big one We don’t want to assume just because they say I would like my my faith in Christ to be Incorporated that we know exactly what that means and that might mean Ten different things for ten different people. Yeah

Chantia Sturman (30:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, I’ve gotten it wrong before. I’ve got it wrong

before, so I had to step back and ask.

Camille McDaniel (31:05)
Okay,

that helps because I was gonna say like what about those of us who are you know out there and they are interested in actually going into the realm of eating disorders and incorporating faith and they’re afraid of getting it wrong but I believe that you really kind of like laid it out it’s you know getting clarity asking the client allowing the client to inform you of what that looks like for them and even when you’re like, okay now I thought

think we had clarity, like then you still are like, now what does God mean to you? How does that show up for you to help them to kind of help themselves a little bit with the process? Okay.

Chantia Sturman (31:37)
Yeah.

Yes. Yeah,

because if we don’t do that too, we run the risk of, especially if you feel like you’re strong in your faith, you run the risk of almost perpetuating the same thing that has hurt them of like, let me tell you, like, let me tell you how to do this correctly. And a lot of times that’s the shame that they’re living in is like, well, I don’t know how to do it correctly. So I need other people to tell me versus I need to, I need to have a personal relationship.

of Christ. That’s what we need, not for someone to tell them, you know, obviously they’re valuing that too, but ⁓ helping them understand like, no, he has given me the power to hear from him directly. And the shame is just, it’s, it’s creating barrier to where you can’t, it’s hard to hear.

Camille McDaniel (32:28)
That’s a good one when you say you have the power to hear from him directly because I have encountered individuals who definitely were like, you know.

Chantia Sturman (32:32)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (32:37)
Well, I need to I need to ask this person or I need to go to that where I lean on this person for my faith, you know, because Why would God want to talk to me after I’ve done this or that or again condemnation right of themselves? ⁓ But it sounds like the way that you’re working with the clients would allow them to feel empowered to have that personal relationship with Christ and not just what they want to maybe do is lean on you and you tell them and and it’s like ⁓

Chantia Sturman (33:02)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel (33:06)
we’re working on you getting stronger, you know? But then there’s also that caution I’m hearing in there for the therapist to not try to be careful not to show up as like the superhero of the story. But instead, as much as you may care, you kind of have to then, you know, allow them to grow a bit more stronger and be a little bit more independent in that area. Okay. ⁓ This is good. Okay, so then with your clients as they’re making progress, ⁓

Chantia Sturman (33:17)
Yeah.

Exactly.

Camille McDaniel (33:36)
actually, what does progress look like? Like what are some signs that you know that your client is actually, they’re starting to really heal. Things are in a good direction.

Chantia Sturman (33:43)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, which is my favorite part. What I mean the most.

I think objective is beginning to see a decrease in behaviors. And so if a person was looking in the mirror certain times a day, or if they were avoiding food or couldn’t go to a restaurant with friends or family because of whatever the reason might be, or they’re hiding food and binging, just looking at just objectively, are these decreasing? And so that’s an important thing to ask. What does it look like this week? ⁓ But I think the…

more broader answer to that would be freedom, like seeing them start to walk in freedom. And so the things that they were held back from because of the preoccupation with food and or with their body, they’re able to like engage with people. You see their relationships start to flourish differently. They may take up different challenges that they once felt like they couldn’t because, well, I have to eat at these times a day or I can’t eat. And so I start to feel lightheaded and I can’t think so I can’t go to college. So when you can see

like the college student go back to school or the athlete be able to compete again and not have the stress fractures coming up. there’s the physical kind of behavioral things you can see change and then you see like the bigger like they’re starting to live their life.

Camille McDaniel (35:02)
even as you’re talking about it, just how much ⁓ the biology of things like you just mentioned, like the college student who can’t focus.

Yeah, depending on what’s going on and how the eating disorder shows up in that person’s life. Yeah, you may not be able to even sit through a full day of classes, you know Definitely i’ve heard with athletes. ⁓ yeah, absolutely So again depending on how it’s showing up just kind of the internal Changes that it causes that makes it so it’s not necessarily safe to put all of that stress on your body on your On your organs on your muscles and bones and things like that. It’s a lot

Chantia Sturman (35:40)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (35:40)
⁓ Okay.

Chantia Sturman (35:41)
Yeah. Well, even just the collaboration with other providers, because if you look at binge eating disorder, it may be a little bit more difficult to see. You they may not be passing out. There may not be those… You may not have the… I end up in an emergency room because they’re dehydrated or, you know, fainted. So you may not have that showing up, but when you’re working with the doctor, you know, you hear like, okay, they’re…

their ⁓ blood pressure is going down. So those measures where it’s just, it can be just as harmful, just different. And you may not be able to see it unless you ask a provider like, how are their health values? weight aside, cause that’s not always a good way to measure someone’s physical health. Like let’s look at their measures. Like are they getting better cholesterol, those types of things.

Camille McDaniel (36:28)
That’s true. That’s really, again, goes back to it’s not just when you’re talking eating disorders, it’s not just one thing you’re looking at. ⁓ As you’re sharing that, then what popped up in my mind was dentist. And I was like, yeah, heard how sometimes a dentist is a part of it, depending on, again, whether bulimia, whether anorexia, but sometimes there has been damage to tooth enamel. I mean, like just so many different areas.

Chantia Sturman (36:36)
Mm-hmm.

That is…

Camille McDaniel (36:56)
Yeah, and specialists that might be involved depending on what’s going on. So if there was a clinician who wanted to get stronger in this area of specialization or they were not even in the specialization at all and said like, know, I feel called to start diving into this area. Like, what what kind of starting point would you suggest as far as working with eating disorders and also what kind of starting point?

Chantia Sturman (37:00)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel (37:26)
if you wanted to integrate faith ethically and work with eating disorders. ⁓ What’s your opinion? Yeah.

Chantia Sturman (37:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I can share just my journey. I had an amazing mentor.

who ⁓ has a IOP-PHP program, and that’s where I got started in private practice just in general. And so being able to see up close, I think it was helpful because outpatient, you’re getting a different level of care or a different level of severity sometimes, because not all clients know that they actually need to be at a higher level of care. ⁓ you learn so much treating higher levels where you’re definitely needing collaboration with

all

the different professionals and it’s built in. So you’re not having to create the team on your own initially. ⁓ And then you have someone where it’s like, actually, so when you told this client, like maybe they just need to go for some walks, let’s talk about that because we didn’t assess if they had an exercise addiction. Like you didn’t assess that. So let’s talk about that. So getting that, ⁓ the supervision.

Camille McDaniel (38:24)
Huh?

Chantia Sturman (38:33)
was so helpful because you’re going to get it wrong. We all do. think we continue to get it wrong. And then you correct yourself and realize I’m just human. But those higher levels of care are great. And then also, if you can’t do that, having a mentor or somebody who is a specialist who can do consultation hours, I think that’s huge.

Camille McDaniel (38:54)
Awesome. Okay. Do you do consultation hours? Okay, okay, because I’m like, so as we go out, tell us where we can find this. Yes, okay.

Chantia Sturman (38:57)
I don’t, maybe one day, maybe one day. Yeah,

maybe one day. There’s a lot of eating disorder. you look, ⁓ consultants, if you look at ⁓ iAdept, it’s International Association of Eating Disorder Professionals, you can find ⁓ supervisors who will, you can pay them hourly for consultation and just say like, hey, this is what I’m seeing. And they can just give you all the

Did you ask this question? Did you ask? And I remember when my mentor asked, was like, no, I didn’t ask that question or that one or that one. Didn’t ask any of the questions. And it’s nice to have the space to not know, but have it be safe because you have it, you’re bouncing it ⁓ off of someone who knows a bit better.

Camille McDaniel (39:45)
Yeah,

there is safety in the ability to get like wise counsel from other people. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I know that we have gone through a lot of information in a short period of time, but I definitely think that it’s valuable and I think that others can definitely glean from this to see is this somewhere that they feel they need to step into. ⁓

Chantia Sturman (39:50)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel (40:10)
if they’re being called and then how to really understand the severity of what we’re dealing with so that if we see these in our session, we know where to at least slightly go with it. ⁓ Matter of fact, let me ask, if you had like a person like myself, I have had times where I’ve noticed clients have lost a significant amount of weight and I will ask or I will say something along the lines of, I see that you have lost weight.

Is this stress? Is this new change in diet? Like, where is it coming from? ⁓ And so I wonder, is that a safe thing to say, you know, when you’re just trying to see, you know, because I’m trying to figure out what are we dealing with here?

Chantia Sturman (40:45)
Yeah.

Good, you can assess.

Yeah, would say so it depends on the client some like if they for example for talking anorexia they might be like she noticed, know, and you wouldn’t think you wouldn’t think to like, you know, so so the phrasing could be ⁓ Have you you know, I just asked him about food like how has food been lately? Has things changed? I’m just wondering And sometimes you can’t avoid

Sometimes you just because sometimes they may say no, everything’s good. So you may just have to directly say okay I’m noticing some changes in your body and I’m wondering ⁓ if that is due to Stress or if there’s something else going on that we need to make sure that we’re assessing and keeping safe So sometimes you do have to ask because there there can be some some hiding behavior just for all the reasons so ⁓ Initially, you may just ask like how’s food been? How tell me what a day looks like?

Camille McDaniel (41:35)
Yes.

Okay.

Chantia Sturman (41:43)
in terms of food because food’s good. Okay, well, what did you what does the day look like? I had some yogurt for breakfast and granola bar for lunch and it was good. And so then it’s like, okay, but that’s that for most people isn’t going to get them throughout the day. gauge like what does good look like for you? Movement?

Camille McDaniel (41:55)
⁓ that’s great.

Okay, that actually is really

helpful because then that way you’re not necessarily saying I noticed that you’ve lost some weight, but you’re just like, hey, so let’s take an assessment and you’re talking about a number of other things in their life and assessing and then you’re like, okay, well, how’s appetite been? How’s food been? And that’s, ⁓ thank you. Thank you very much.

Chantia Sturman (42:15)
Perfect. So, yep.

Cause then if they are, sometimes the noticing weight loss really reinforces and it’s like, ⁓ yes. And it’s not that they want it to be that way. Not that an individual necessarily wants that, but heard it many times when people start noticing weight loss and commenting on it, it can exacerbate. ⁓ Cause it’s, it’s, it’s affirming, especially in our culture. Like you lost weight. Thank you. You know.

Camille McDaniel (42:30)
Yeah!

Yes, that’s good. But that’s

helpful because again for those of us who aren’t specializing in it but we’re just noticing some changes in our our clients and we don’t know if it maybe is something popping up or not. It’s like how do we address that without like you said without then kind of validating something that we intend to validate. So that’s very helpful. Thank you very much. Well, you know we’re at the end of our time but

Chantia Sturman (42:53)
Right.

Of course.

Yeah.

Camille McDaniel (43:05)
you have a website, you’re practicing, can you please let us know like where are you practicing, where you licensed to practice, and how can people refer to you?

Chantia Sturman (43:15)
Yeah, so I am licensed in California, Oregon and Florida. I live in Oregon, originally from California. So I’m licensed in those states. ⁓ My website is, or my practice and website, Tapestry Counseling. My website is tapestrycounselingco.com. And yeah, you could shoot me an email. There’s a contact form on my website. ⁓ Even if there’s just questions or things people are curious about, I love to connect with other professionals. So feel free to reach out.

Camille McDaniel (43:45)
This has been good. Thank you so much, Chantia, for sharing your specialization and your knowledge with us. I appreciate it greatly.

Chantia Sturman (43:47)
Thanks for having me.

Thank you, I loved being