How To Show Up For Clients When Your Life Is Falling Apart

Camille McDaniel, LPC (00:03.85)
Welcome back. Welcome back for those who have been listeners and welcome to everyone who is a new listener. We have a wonderful guest today. We are going to be talking about a topic that I think is very timely and that is going to be how do we show up for clients when our lives as mental health professionals are falling apart? And that could be falling apart in a multitude of ways, which we will talk about later. But first our guests,

Our guest is Chrystol Wilson-Payne. She’s a licensed professional counselor right here in the state of Georgia. And she actually has two focus areas for her own practice, which is in Norcross. She has a focus on being very passionate about helping women discover their self-worth and boost their self-esteem, find healthy balance in their lives, and discover their self-worth through self-care. And then she also supports families.

from guiding couples toward healthy marriages to strengthening parent-child connections and assisting with co-parenting dynamics. She believes heavily that the rapport and relationship that she builds with her clients is of the utmost importance as it relates to healing and transformation. So thank you so much, Chrystol, for talking with me and talking to our listeners today.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (01:24.574)
Thank you for having me, Camille.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (01:26.184)
Absolutely. Well, we’re gonna, we’re gonna jump right in. Like I was saying in the, in the beginning, this is actually quite timely because this is a election week where we voted a couple of days ago, we got the results back. And as with all elections, you know, every every four years.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (01:30.814)
you

Camille McDaniel, LPC (01:45.956)
There’s just a multitude of feelings. So some people may have already gone into the elections with things that were challenging them, felt feeling like, you know, life is I’m just holding my own life together and now I have to show up for clients. And that has been compounded by some different things that have taken place during this week. So we can, we see online in mental health spaces, we see online and non mental health spaces.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (01:46.163)
Thank

Camille McDaniel, LPC (02:11.766)
that people are going through a variety of expression of emotion. let’s kind of just jump right in with that. Why do you think it’s kind of challenging for mental health professionals like ourselves to just navigate their own personal crisis while they are also trying to serve their clients and other people?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (02:37.958)
Well, in a general sense, think at the top of the list is many of us maybe feel pressure to have it together because we are therapists, right? And there’s this image that we may not have necessarily invited upon ourselves, but this image that if you’re helping other people with their life, then your life must have, it has to be together. And so when we are faced with the reality that that’s not how that works.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:01.132)
Right?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:05.846)
Mmm.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (03:07.295)
I’m trained, I have gifts, right? I went to school, God has blessed me with a certain way with people. All of that is true. That does not mean that my life, or that life doesn’t life for me as well.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:21.784)
Hello somebody, okay? Hello, okay? That’s a good one because you’re right, know, sometimes, and I’ve even had a client or two say, you know, I was looking for somebody who seemed to have their stuff together, you know, you couldn’t be worse off than me. And you know, funny because I would think like, but how would you know? You know, because we wanna make sure that you’re coming to us because we have the tools, the skills, the training.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (03:23.451)
you

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (03:34.11)
I’m sorry.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (03:46.904)
But that doesn’t mean that like you said that life is not life in us and so well when we are dealing with like major issues So it could be like marital discord, know It could be that we’re having a challenge with one of our children whether it happens to be behavioral or maybe we’re out of a bad diagnosis or Somebody in our family passed away, you know, there’s just there’s really no end to the ways that life can life us, you know and

What do you think are just some ways that we can mentally prepare as clinicians to then be able to support our clients while carrying out our sessions?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (04:25.534)
Well the first thing is if you are putting extra pressure on yourself to always have it together, release yourself.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (04:32.28)
Right, first and foremost.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (04:34.142)
think that’s the only way to actually prepare because many times the things that go on in our life, we didn’t see it coming, right? It’s unexpected. So it’s hard to prepare for something that you don’t know is going to happen specifically. But we do know that something is going to happen. We may not know what it is, when it’s going to happen. And that doesn’t make you less of a clinician, less of a therapist, less of a helper because something is happening in your life.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (04:48.055)
Yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (05:02.94)
and that it doesn’t mean anything negative about you for you to reach out for help as well. Or you need to be able to assess where you are as a therapist. What is your capacity to do your job well while you’re going through something? But the first thing you have to do is release yourself of the almost perfectionist idea that I’m okay all the time.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (05:24.811)
is.

I that. I believe that somebody really needed to hear that because I know that sometimes we feel like if we don’t have it together, then how are we helping other people? Aren’t we being fake? Isn’t that really kind of like an imposter? You know, all of that starts coming up, but you’re absolutely right. It’s almost like you just told somebody out there who’s listening and just like, wait, stop. That’s an unrealistic belief that you are holding about what you are just do as you show up as a mental health professional. Yeah. So then, let me ask you this then, because I know that

a number of clinicians actually on election day decided, okay, I’m not going to see any clients. And they may have even taken off the day after. Some people on the flip side actually piled themselves up and had a very busy schedule, you know? And so how do you decide whether it, whether we’re talking elections or whether we’re talking, you know, like I said before, marital issues or illnesses that have popped up along the way, but just how do we decide when it is actually time to like take off?

instead of pushing through. You know what are some of those signs that should tell us wait a minute you probably need to slow down right now.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (06:36.424)
So I hope that most of us as therapists have a certain level of self-awareness. Okay, we gotta start there. Not all of us do. But hopefully we have a certain level of self-awareness to know that how do I typically respond in these kinds of situations? Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (06:44.278)
Okay. Yep.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (06:52.844)
Yeah. And that’s good. Cause let me jump in and just say this to Crystal that some of the people who listen are also students. So that, sometimes they are like, what is the self-awareness that I need to have?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (06:59.954)
Yeah.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (07:06.716)
Yeah, and this is why we say a therapist needs a therapist, to have at least done some of this work to know where maybe your weaknesses are or where your tender spots are, you know, where your triggers are. And so when things like this come up.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (07:09.368)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (07:16.811)
No.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (07:21.266)
you know, okay, I do need to take a day. So I have one of my best friends as a therapist and we were talking about election day. She said, yeah, I have clients into the evening. I usually don’t even see clients in the evening, but I went ahead and said yes, because I don’t want to be sitting in front of the TV and I feel like I’m actually doing something. Right? I was like, mm-mm. I’m having a light day.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (07:38.346)
Okay, yes, yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (07:46.494)
I’m gonna have a light day and I set myself up with a light day the next day just in case whether it was I stayed up too late watching it or it didn’t go the way I necessarily wanted it to, whatever it is. But that does come with, again, awareness and time in the field. So if a student is listening right now, one question that I ask maybe from people that I supervise is, what would you tell a client in this situation? So.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (07:52.834)
panel. Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (08:13.468)
What feelings do you have around the election or what feelings do you have around that? And if that were to come up the day that you had to see some people, would you truly be able to show up? Is that gonna be therapeutic for you to show up for them? Or is it gonna tap you out where you truly can’t be in the space with them in a therapeutic way?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:21.1)
Yeah!

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:28.414)
Thank

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:34.718)
Okay, that’s yeah, that’s a good one for them to think about because it’s also healthy boundaries, making sure that we are going to be able to show up and provide the care that we say that we are going to give, do no harm, all of that. Yeah. Ethics. Yes. Absolutely.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (08:50.066)
that it’s focused on the climate and that it’s focused on them. I think we saw this in COVID. We’ve seen it in with other things going on with social justice, the election where we are literally being affected by the same thing that our climate is being affected by in real time.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (08:57.976)
I’ll get it.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (09:06.208)
And okay, and then that’s a good one because that leads me to asking about, so when or is it ever do you feel appropriate to share these things with a client? know, because I, excuse me, I know I shared with you, we had a passing away in the family, someone passed away. I had to cancel and rearrange some of my clients and some of my clients who are more longer standing, I noticed when I got back into the office,

one of them especially was just like you know I want to just start asking are you okay right you know and and I thought that was very sweet sometimes I have some very kind clients but I’m very mindful to actually keep it short sweet and keep it moving you know going back to like what you said because it’s like this is not my session this is yours but I want to also acknowledge yes we are both human and you care just like I care about you and that’s okay but you know this is still your session so do you know

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (09:58.838)
Yeah, but you made that point there, acknowledging our own humanity in the session. I think that’s great to model that for our clients. We don’t just come in and say, I’m fine, and you just had a death in the family. Or I know you just got over COVID. you just had a baby, whatever it is. And you’re just like, it’s fine. Now what about you? That’s not mirroring true humanity and acknowledging our own experience for them. And that is part of our role as therapists.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (10:13.399)
Why?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (10:25.74)
Yes, okay, so then that’s where I think it goes into how do you handle it ethically and that’s it. Being able to recognize that yes, we are all humans and so we’re coming from a humanistic approach but there’s limits because this is still your session and so we can honor the fact that you care about me and thank you for that and now let’s transition to but how are you doing, you know, okay, yeah. Now I know that you are also a Christian so then, you know, as a follower of Christ.

how do you feel your faith has helped you kind of show up for other people? Even if there were times where your life wasn’t always, you know, always doing well. And I know that you are, you’re a wife, you’re a mom, and so, you know, you don’t get through this world having connections with other people or having family and something doesn’t happen. you know.

So, you know, how has your faith though helped you to show up even when maybe things around you are not going well?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (11:25.63)
was like, 2023 was probably one of the most difficult years, like in probably almost every way. But for me to show up for my clients and that I prayed more than I ever did before sessions. And I know without a shadow of a doubt that the Holy Spirit was working through me. I leaned more on that. Yes, I still know my books. You know, I know techniques like that.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (11:44.086)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (11:49.504)
Mm-hmm.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (11:51.24)
But especially when I’m dealing with maybe someone with trauma or someone that is literally saying what I’m going through. Like when I get out of this session, I gotta go deal with that too. Right? And the human being is like, yes, girl.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:01.652)
Yes. Okay.

Yes, right, right!

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (12:10.558)
I’m tired. my God. maybe I don’t want to hear. There can be that human part of us as well. I don’t want to hear this. That reminds me of what I’m going through. So that’s when I’m prayerful, like, God, you know where I am. And I’m putting my situation in your hands anyway, but especially in this moment, where I know you have called me to be this for this person. Please come in and fill the spaces that I don’t have right now. And it shows up every time. Sometimes I don’t even want to.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:26.04)
.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:32.378)
Yes, absolutely.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:38.487)
Mm-hmm.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (12:39.582)
necessarily in the session, but they feel so much better. They’re doing good. Okay, now I can go.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (12:43.073)
Right!

Absolutely, absolutely. That is right. Goodness. So really just leaning, like you said, into the safety, into the protection, into the strength, into the strength of the Lord when we are not strong. Let the Holy Spirit minister to your spirit and just fill in the gaps, really.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (12:49.278)
Now let me go do a math test.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (12:59.742)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (13:06.942)
And sometimes it’s just that presence that I know is in the room, is with us, where I don’t even have to give necessarily as much as I thought I was going to have to in that moment.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (13:10.957)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (13:17.656)
Okay, so then how would you encourage other Christian professionals to lean into their faith during challenging seasons, while they are still trying to keep their commitments to their clients? Because sometimes that is hard. Sometimes we have listeners who are Christ-centered in the way that they offer their counseling practices and in their personal life. We have some who are Christ-centered in their personal life.

and they are still trying to navigate incorporating it into their professional life. And so sometimes we just need to hear it. like, what would you encourage them to do or to think on?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (14:00.102)
on how to incorporate it or.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (14:01.938)
Yeah just how to encourage them to kind of lean into their faith in all aspects, in all seasons, whether those seasons are great or whether those seasons are really poor while they’re still trying to also stand strong for clients.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (14:17.118)
Well, he has prepared you for such a time as this. He’s not gonna leave you. If he led you here, he’s not gonna leave you there with what you don’t have. So everything you need is already within you. And so, and he’s given you all the tools you need to be successful in each area of your life. If you lean into that relationship and being guided by that and not how you feel.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (14:20.087)
Mmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (14:41.374)
Okay, right. That’s that lean not into your own understanding, right? Right.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (14:42.334)
Right?

Yeah, I don’t get it. But in that year, I had this piece that I truly did not understand, even with all the chaos or the one thing after another. I’m OK, though. I’m like, I really know that this is going to be all right. My faith is strong, even as I’m acknowledging this is messed up. I don’t like this. And then also, I believe it does give me another layer as a therapist.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:08.719)
Yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (15:14.078)
to encourage people to acknowledge the negative, acknowledge the struggle, acknowledge the bad, right? Because it’s a problem in life. While you can still have strong faith, you can still believe that all things are working together for your good. And even if I’m not saying that in session, that’s what I’m saying in the session. I may not say that in scripture, depending on who I’m talking to, But I’m saying.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:14.946)
Absolutely.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (15:28.608)
Yes.

Yes, right. That’s key and that’s kind of confirmation. Yeah, I love that you said that because that almost is confirming just something that I was even thinking about as I had somebody ask me just recently actually they were like so I can still be troubled by this but also move forward as well. It’s like absolutely yeah that’s the human part of it.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (15:55.388)
Mm-hmm. Yep. You can be in grief. You can be grieving and living.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (16:02.344)
man, you can be grieving and living. Okay, wait, you’re gonna, all right, you’re gonna have to tell me a little bit more about that because sometimes we do pause. Sometimes we pause right even down to the fact that we’re not even breathing regularly. you know, we pause our life almost until, how do you even encourage someone, I know this is about mental health professionals, but real quick, how do you?

You know, how do you encourage somebody to do that? Like you said, you can grieve and live. How?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (16:36.168)
So there’s this, and I will send it to you, there’s this illustration of that, it’s called the Lost Cycle. Have you ever seen it? Okay, so it’s not the five stages of grief, because that’s actually based on the person that is dying, not the people that are grieving them. So when you think about that from that perspective, if you’ve been given a terminal diagnosis, you know you’re going to die. Now you look at the five stages of grief.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (16:42.518)
No, I’m not, okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (16:59.297)
Yes.

Okay but not but okay because usually when I’ve heard that it has been for anyone who is grieving.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (17:09.724)
It was not developed for the people that are grieving the loss. It was for the person that is going to leave. And then in that context, it makes much more sense that it would be short, might be that short and simple. But the experience that we actually have in actually real life of grieving something is not five or seven stages. It truly can be a cycle. So one side of this is

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:12.694)
Hello.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:17.523)
Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:23.414)
Yes. Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:33.046)
That’s the truth.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (17:36.51)
all these different emotional experiences that we have, right? And then when we get stuck at one, we cycle back through it. And so we’re ending up in this swirl.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:40.224)
Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:46.669)
Okay, wow!

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (17:48.19)
You wonder why every time this comes up, I get back to denial. Like, this can’t be real.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (17:55.522)
There you go. Yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (17:56.35)
Then I get mad all over again. And then I go through hopelessness again. And then I’m like, okay, I got to snap out of it. I get busy. And then something hits me again. And I’m back at, this can’t be real.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (18:06.708)
Yep. yeah.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (18:08.274)
This is how people stay in the cycle, whereas allowing yourself to fully feel each aspect of your grief or your loss cycle, acknowledge what is it that you’re angry about. We can be angry at God, at ourselves, at other people, at the circumstance, and truly acknowledge each aspect of how this loss has affected you. That’s what leads us to a place of acceptance. And then on this illustration, after you’ve surrendered to the truth,

Camille McDaniel, LPC (18:11.286)
Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (18:35.704)
Mm-hmm.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (18:36.914)
that this person is gone, that relationship is no longer here, I lost the job, whatever that is, you are truly surrendered to and that’s not going to change.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (18:43.029)
Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (18:48.872)
Okay, all right, truly surrender though. Okay.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (18:50.302)
then you go to, it’s not gonna change. Because our brain doesn’t want to accept what has happened, right? And so it’s, this is not going to change no matter how much I think about it, no matter how many bargaining things I say in my brain. If I had done this, it’s not going to change. Now we can transition to the next part, which is what does my life look like with the loss?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (18:56.3)
Yeah, that’s good.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (19:15.5)
That’s important. That’s that acceptance. That’s full acceptance and moving forward. That’s good. Because they’re so, again, and it’s reminding me of individuals who I know could benefit from it. Again, whether you got some word that maybe a child, whatever diagnosis that they’re experiencing, whatever illness, it’s not going to be the version of the child that you had hoped for, right? know, or relationship challenges or just a whole host of things where

the challenge or the the weight that you have to carry is going to be carried for a little while. So I love how you said in this version it helps you to see how sometimes you cycle through a little bit before you exit on to the next thing. Yeah okay so yeah.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (19:59.294)
Yes. And that’s normal. And that’s a normal process. And that’s a normal process.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (20:06.624)
I’m definitely, okay, I will definitely make sure I get that and we’ll post that along with your episode. Yeah, that’ll be wonderful. So then let me ask how then do you help people to prioritize their self care when they are still managing this heavy weight in their own personal life and struggle, but still trying to show up in their practice?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (20:09.65)
Yeah.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (20:30.28)
So it’s number one, I would have people, when I was working with a student, one of my supervisors, she had something going on in her life. said, okay, we need to, first let’s start practically. What does your schedule look like?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (20:44.664)
Okay.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (20:45.48)
Who’s on your schedule? At what time? Are you eating lunch? Like, we might talk about a certain client or a couple, and I’m just like, did you eat lunch before you saw them?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (20:48.684)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (20:58.872)
Absolutely right!

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (20:59.582)
She’s like, no. I said, what time are you seeing them? And who’s right before? So you got somebody with a lot of childhood trauma. Then you go into this high conflict couple. And then you see whoever it is. And this is all within the same, and you didn’t eat lunch. So said, So sometimes it can be as simple as that it’s the way you set up your day.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (21:14.573)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (21:18.688)
Right. Goodness.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (21:27.354)
It’s, did you eat breakfast? Did you eat lunch? Did you get a break in between these two particular clients? Or maybe you need to see one at the first half of the day and the other one. Or you need to switch this to the beginning of the week instead of your Friday or your last day. We know the therapists we are at the beginning of the week can be very different than the therapists we are for our last client. Depending on what is happening in the week. Just in a regular week, right?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (21:40.216)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (21:47.736)
You have never lied, right? Okay. Okay, okay.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (21:57.148)
My Thursday at four is definitely different than my Monday at 10. And even different than my Wednesday at 12, right? Depending on what’s happening in my life, the roles that we play outside of our lives.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:00.213)
Wait!

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:09.366)
Yes, yeah, that’s absolutely true.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (22:11.154)
So on the practical level, look at how your day is set up and is that aligning with what you need, the space that you need to care for yourself throughout the day so that you can show up for them. And it really is about putting your wellbeing as a priority so that you can prioritize them in the session.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (22:31.724)
That’s that is so key and it’s funny how even when you talked about the therapist you are at the beginning of the week may not be the therapist you are at the end of the week and it you know I know people are hearing it but it’s like we got to really slow down and hear that you know and what it also reminded me of the therapist that you are for for those of us who’ve been doing this for quite some time the therapist that I was when I was like I don’t know late 20s or early 30s that’s not who I am today.

So many things have happened since that. And I have to make sure to watch how I do things. I can’t burn the candle at both ends the way I used to just jet set and do before. Like, are you even keeping up with your developmental stage when you’re caring for yourself, right? Do you need a nap in the middle of the day?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (23:16.936)
Look, maybe I didn’t get sleep because I had night sweats that night, you know?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (23:21.751)
Hello?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (23:27.992)
Man! Right! Right! Man! We- okay!

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (23:28.278)
I didn’t sleep well, I’ve been up since 3.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (23:36.632)
Again, we talk about, but this is that self-awareness that we’re talking about. If we’re talking to young therapists or students, you are going to evolve and change even as a woman, as a person, as a therapist, as a Christian, as all these different identities that we have, and it’s going to inform your work as a therapist. But you’ve got to acknowledge it first. Yes, I am paramount apostle. And that has an effect on my mood.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (23:51.352)
you

Camille McDaniel, LPC (24:01.772)
Hello?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (24:06.706)
my sleep, all of these things, and I need to be aware of that.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (24:10.39)
Right, these are now see this takes me right into I was going to ask you about boundaries but these are also a part of that because you knowing this about yourself means that sometimes you’re not going to be able to put the schedule together the way you want it to because you know you need something different. You’re going to have to say no maybe to that 6 p.m you used to always take and now you can’t do that anymore. You know you have to have those boundaries in place to know what how far can I go?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (24:34.888)
and don’t.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (24:39.188)
in this season? In what ways, not even how far can I go as though I’m limited but maybe I’ll need a pivot and do a little something different in this new season right? That’s that’s key.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (24:48.414)
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Does this align with my values right now? Does this align with, like, I mean, if you’re a new mom or even a mom that, you know, or maybe your children are getting ready to leave and you want to spend more time with them, I need to, maybe I need condense my schedule so that I’m not working as much. You know, there’s a lot of, again, it’s okay for us to prioritize ourselves as we serve other people.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (25:02.198)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (25:10.701)
Yes.

I think sometimes we make that very optional. we know it, but we’re like, okay, I’m gonna get to it. And then when we break down and can’t go any further, then we realized, no, it really was never optional. You were kind of always playing a little Russian roulette with that, cause you were pushing it. And so, okay. So then let me, sure, absolutely.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (25:31.102)
Absolutely. Even with the clients that we take something else that I was telling that student and I’ve had to say for myself, there are certain seasons where I don’t maybe not take as many clients or many new clients or certain kinds of clients. Unless you work for a business that makes you take any of them. I mean, I everyone doesn’t have that privilege or luxury, but if you

Camille McDaniel, LPC (25:49.633)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (26:00.727)
Like there was a season I was like, can’t see I love client. I love couples but the amount of energy

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:05.068)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (26:10.204)
with color or I only have one at a time. I can’t have three of y’all now. I don’t have children of a certain age or certain diagnoses. I don’t have it to be as helpful. Let me refer. And that’s ethically. We always need to be aware of are we in the place to be able to properly serve a certain population? If we’re not, just refer somebody else is in a good place for it. And it’s okay. It’s okay to say no.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:13.558)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:21.426)
I’m going to miss you.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:33.122)
That’s good.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (26:38.828)
That’s good. Okay, without fear because the way you said it was just like confident, like I’m not fearful of that. I’m just, I’m confident in knowing this is not where I’m at in this season of my life and someone else can do it. And I think that goes to so in my mind, as you say that what I’m thinking is and don’t be afraid that more people won’t come. It’s like, but if I give this up, then what will happen? You know? Yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (26:39.932)
And that’s not, I’m not the person.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (27:04.166)
air city mindset.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (27:06.54)
But if you’re confident in who you are supposed to serve at that season of your life, that’s the people that will come to you then those with you know.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (27:13.63)
They show up. They show up when they’re supposed to show up. It’s amazing sometimes. When I need a light week, somehow I just have it. I’m sure that has happened to you. Like, we’re like, I’m not sure if I can do it this week. And all of a sudden…

Camille McDaniel, LPC (27:21.652)
Yes. Okay. Yes, it has. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (27:31.3)
Yes, I am fine with you rescheduling, yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (27:35.35)
You know, now I’ll tell you, you are, you are so spot on. I feel like, man, have you been just spying in on my life sometimes because I will do that or, the Lord will even tell me like, you know, you really need to scale back this week. And it’s like, but I really need to do this. re- right. And lo and behold, folks need to reschedule all of a sudden this happened or that happened or whatever. It ended up being a light week anyway and felt

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (27:50.782)
So.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (28:03.544)
like it was something I really needed and I’m like well all right well Lord you do know what you are talking about so I’m gonna go ahead and lean on into that you know and so but yeah absolutely.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (28:09.374)
Thank

And then you still book the next week. That’s where letting that fear go. It’s gonna be okay. light will, because that’s our business. That’s private practice, right? There are ebbs and flows, but no, in the end, it all comes together.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (28:19.611)
Absolutely.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (28:26.295)
Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (28:30.74)
it does all come together. And definitely since we, we walk with our faith, we while we walk with the Lord, and we exercise faith in Him, He really does, I mean, He really does fill in gaps where we think we know, and we’re, you know, we’re used to doing things and orchestrating, we’re business owners, we’re, you know, we’re running households and all the different things. We still don’t know everything. So, you know, so He helps, He helps us out when He’s like, yeah, yeah.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (28:56.67)
People are us that all the time. You’re not in control.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:00.44)
You’re not in control.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (29:03.646)
Calm down.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:03.672)
There you go. You’re not running the world. That’s all right. You know, so, so let me ask this. So if somebody happens to be struggling over the guilt of it, cause that’s something else that comes up for mental health professionals is that if they have to put these boundaries in place and if they have to take care of themselves, they may find that they feel real guilty over having to do that and kind of, you know,

concerned that something will happen or clients will have difficulties or they you know just wouldn’t know what to do. How do you navigate that? How do you navigate the guilt?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (29:42.28)
Well, I would say the same thing I say either to myself or someone else or clients, but something I say a lot is guilt is reserved for doing something wrong.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:51.031)
I like that. Okay. Yeah.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (29:53.16)
purpose of it. It’s not a bad emotion, because there’s no bad emotion, but it serves a certain purpose for when you’ve done something wrong.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (29:57.176)
Yeah.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (30:01.772)
I like that. So that challenge of you.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (30:03.134)
And so then the question is, right, so then the question you ask is, is it wrong for me to take time to heal? Is it wrong for me to take two weeks off, make sure my clients are either, like they’re in a good place or that they have someone to talk to or, you know, and then tend to my needs so that I can, is that wrong?

Camille McDaniel, LPC (30:25.976)
And it’s not wrong, right? So then that’s…

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (30:27.858)
I would hope, I would hope you would say no. So then the guilt is unwarranted and now it’s just on you to release that.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (30:30.584)
Right, right, right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (30:36.534)
I like that. Guilt is reserved for doing something wrong. Yep. But if you have no proof of that, then there is nothing wrong that you’re doing. Yeah. And you have to move forward in that. That’s good. So then, well, I clearly could talk to you more because I’m like, all right, Crystal is on a roll. but tell us, you know, if there’s anything else that you want to share at this time, please feel free to share it. if, you know, otherwise tell us where we can connect with you.

I know you have a practice here but I know you have other initiatives. You’ve also you know been on television stations giving the same you know expertise on different topics so whatever you would like to close us out with and and where we can find more as it relates to connecting with you.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (31:24.094)
So the last thing I’d love to leave people with, especially when it comes to taking care of yourself, is that if you are living your life, or even just a certain season, when you use, if you use these three words a lot, should, supposed to, and have to, then you are taking all of your choices away. You’re living a life as if you have no choices. And then that makes it feel like it’s not your own, and that leads to discontent, depression, all of these things.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (31:38.456)
Mmm.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (31:51.39)
because everything is a should, supposed to, or have to.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (31:54.358)
Mmm, that’s good.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (31:57.23)
should be doing this for them. Probably means you’re not. So it’s more important to figure out why you’re not than as we would say shoulding all over yourself. Right? You remember that. So instead of should, supposed to, or have to, want to lean into want to, need to, and get to.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:00.596)
in.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:05.782)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:15.474)
Okay, want to need to and get to. Okay, we’re have all kinds of nice little quotes from you. all right. Awesome.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (32:23.282)
So once you need to and get to, I want a vacation. Do I need a vacation? Do I get to take a vacation? Because I’m in private practice and I can set up my own schedule. Choice. Instead of, be going on a vacation. I’m not supposed to leave because my clients need me. I have to stay here. And so I would want to leave everyone with that. So if you’re going through something.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:37.046)
Yeah. Right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:44.984)
Mm-hmm.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:49.344)
Yes.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (32:49.692)
You could be leaning more into the shoulds. I should be okay. I should have it all together. But what do you actually need right now? I need support. I need some time. I don’t want to necessarily have to be a therapist right now while I’m going through something. And so what do I get to do? Because I have a choice.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:55.116)
Right, right.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (32:59.032)
Right. Yep.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (33:09.848)
I love that. So that even is pushing us to again, going back to like you’re saying, living, even though earlier we were talking about it as it relates to grief, but what you’re saying right here is like it keeps the mind moving forward to the things we can do something about instead of lamenting over the things that we can’t. Yeah, that’s awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much. Now, how do we find out more about you?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (33:32.03)
All right, so you can follow me on social media. I’m on Facebook, I’m on TikTok and Instagram, crystal, LPC, C-H-R-Y-S-T-O-L, LPC. I have a guided journal called Embrace the Calm, and it’s for overwhelmed women to cultivate joy and reduce stress. And so it’s 90 days to lead you through a process of identifying your stressors, what you can do about those, and then how to create a life.

of joy, actual joy, and reduce stress at the same time.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:03.044)
wow. Nice. Can all of that be found on your website?

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (34:09.82)
Yes, and can order the journal on Amazon and just look up Embrace the Calm. In crystal order, you can put my name in. Nobody spells the name like mine. Crystal Wilson Payne. yeah, I speaking engagements, other podcasts. I love just encouraging people to embrace their humanity. We are human beings. And it’s OK to just be.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:21.94)
Okay, okay.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:35.668)
Yes. Yes. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today for sitting and talking to us. Absolutely.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (34:39.326)
have to be doing.

Chrystol Wilson-Payne, LPC (34:43.198)
Thank you for having me.

God bless this endeavor. I love what you’re doing here.

Camille McDaniel, LPC (34:50.37)
Thank you so much. I receive it.

CPP Ep. 15 How To Show Up For Clients When Your Life Is Falling Apart